St Anthony's Catholic Primary School - (traffic congestion caused by a stupid parent)

[dulmum]

The catchment for St Anthony's is a 1.3 miles radius. They are consistently over-subscribed so I would guess they do not have to take kids from outside the catchment. Whatever the reasons for congestion around this school, I can't see how the fact that it is a faith school changes anything.

[Jamma]

Woo hoo the power of the EDF. Today there was three parkies in Etherow Street busting dumb-parking-ass all over the shop. It was a joy to see.

[agathoise]

Um, except that they weren't "parkies" they were Transport For London officers and were not "busting dumb-ass parking all over the place", they were observing whether or not buses were being obstructed. I was passing and asked them about parking and they said they had no jurisdiction over it. They hadn't issued any tickets or fines. They said they hadn't seen any problems outside St Anthony's. They weren't aware of the EDF but had come on a pre-arranged TFL schedule at the request of the bus drivers (they have actually been there before, but later on in the day)...

Agathoise

[Jamma]

Bah, so it's not the power of the EDF. But they were there because stupid people are blocking the road with their dopey parking. Seems silly that the bus drivers have to call in TFL folk with no real powers when the head of the school should be dealing with it and saving everyone a lot of bother.

They may not have been giving out tickets but they were moving people on who parked at the non-school end of the road. Yet again a numpty had blocked the path of the Number 12. The situation was a lot better today, I guess because people saw men in uniform and presumed they were parkies or something.

I can't wait till the parkies do come then, it'll be even more fun.

[agathoise]

>>>when the head of the school should be dealing with it and saving everyone a lot of bother.

Has anyone actually spoken to the school? Do they have the slightest clue about the seething mass of EDF fury?

This got me thinking: I'm consistently reduced to spluttering rage by the idiotic and downright antisocial parking of parents doing the pick-up at Goodrich school: double-parked, parked on wiggly yellow lines, or just stopped in the middle of the road. It's chaos for a good block in every direction from the school at the end of the school day, and if I forget to use another route we get caught up in it. However in 11 years of living in ED, it's never occurred to me to phone the school to complain (doh!). I suspect a polite phone call to Goodrich -- and, for those affected, to St. Anthony's -- would do far more than sharing bile and fury online :-)

Agathoise

[sillywoman]

Not if Alleyns' consistently apathetic response is anything to judge by. 14 years of phone calls and written complaints: result? A shed load of fobbing off & an increase in the parking problem as a direct result of school action. But I know, I know - that's another thread & has been done to death already on this forum.

Bitter, moi?

Anyway, I wish you better Luck with Goodrich and St A's.

[dulwichmum]

dulmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The catchment for St Anthony's is a 1.3 miles

> radius. They are consistently over-subscribed so I

> would guess they do not have to take kids from

> outside the catchment. Whatever the reasons for

> congestion around this school, I can't see how the

> fact that it is a faith school changes anything.

OHMYGOD!!! I almost laughed my head clean off my shoulders just then. In fact, I may throw up...

Have you ever met the parish priest sweetie?

I haven't laughed so much in years. My mascara is everywhere (gasps for breath, cluthces chest and reaches for tissues).

[Growlybear]

Jamma Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> when the head of the school should be

> dealing with it and saving everyone a lot of

> bother.

>

I'm just wondering what the Headteacher is expected to do? Should s/he lie down on the zig zags to stop people parking? Because I can't think of any other way that schools could stop parents from parking outside. I work for a neighbouring Borough, and I can't think of one of our 80-odd primary schools that does not have a problem with parents parking illegally or inconsiderately. All of the heads I work with write to parents regularly, include items in their newsletters, tell children in assemblies that their parents shouldn't park outside the school, arrange for the Road Safety Officer to come into school and mention the problems parents cause by parking where they shouldn't. Some schools name and shame parents who park illegally and some write to individual parents. A number of schools also put traffic cones on the zig sags (which they don't have the authority to do). Many headteachers do go out fairly regularly to ask parents not to park on the zig sag lines; I don't know of a single one who hasn't been subjected to a torrent of abuse by parents. Schools do get visits from parking wardens, but when you consider the number of schools involved, there just aren't enough wardens to make an impact. It's not a problem that is unique to St Anthony's - every school in this area has problems with parking, and I don't think there is an answer as long as parents continue to drive to school and aren't prepared to park a couple of streets away where they wouldn't cause an obstruction.

But I can understand that there are lots of reasons why some parents have to drive their children to school. In my case, I had no real alternative but to drive my daughter to school when she was at Dulwich Hamlet. We were lucky enough to get a place off the waiting list from well outside the usual catchment area; my daughter started school at 9 a.m., and I started work at 9.15 a.m.. Had I not driven her to school, I would have had no way of getting to work on time. However, I would NEVER have parked illegally, and regularly parked some distance away, where I could leave my car without causing an obstruction.

[star13uk]

Update and clarification. I was there Friday morning (only shift of the week on early turn) to observe what was going on and chat to people. Everybody was very well behaved - a few people said it was becasue we were visible. We can issue a ?40 ticket if we can evidence an obstruction (buses primarily). Several cars seemed to be about to park up - saw us and moved on. There were a few fast "stop and drops" with no buses obstructed. Not really got a problem with that - but seveal vehicals parked up (out the way) while the kids were walked into the school - I suspect they might be a problem if we were not there. We talked to bus drivers who said it was "a bit of an issue" but nothing major. Taking details of cars causing a real problem and letting us or the council know would help identify persistant offenders. We could have word in their shell likes. We also found some parking attendants to question - they seemed to be saying they avoid the school dropoff/pickup as it can get pretty confrontational - they prefere unattended vehicles, not angry parents. Something to take up with the LA. We are meeting the Schools officer to see what can be done as to laising with St Anthony's (Kingsdale has put in a good policy - free buses etc - to reduce the impact on the Rt3). We hope to repeat our visits and the idea might get around - we catch somebody on the zig zags, or blocking a bus they will get a ticket. We will try and get the SNT to pop by and "show the flag" when they are available. Any other suggestions?

[summerjt]

Read this one with interest. I reflected on my schooldays and realise that I walked to school, on my own, from the age of 7. My school was a very short walk from where I lived. Later, when I went to secondary school, I also walked to school, but the school was a lot further away, a half an hour walk. I must confess, sometimes if the weather was bad, I got a lift either there or back from a parent. However, the reason was not for my safety but because it was raining... My parent would park up in a nearby road whilst waiting for me to emerge from school, causing, I presume, similar problems to those described on this post. I suppose what I'm getting at is that I and my parents thought it was perfectly safe and OK for me to be walking around on my own from a fairly young age (unless inclement weather...) I think something has shifted when parents no longer feel that their children are safe walking around on their own. I wonder if this is an issue all over the country, or just London?

[star13uk]

I think you are right. Soceity has changed. 24hr news, internet, scare stories make the headlines. Perceptions have shifted if not the facts. Athough the road have got busier and faster. That morning I observed lots of young kids making their way to school on their own. One issue I did observe was that the road can get pretty busy (mainly with cars turning up and dropping off kids) that crossing the road for young kids was sometimes an issie that parents would worry about. The school might help with that or maybe a crossing?

[Ann]

I'm fairly sure a crossing was discussed with Southwark a few years ago as the school was keen to have one but it was ultimately turned down. I cant remember he reasons.

[Gubodge]

Agathoise,

You should have seen Goodrich Road this morning, a complete log jam of cars with drivers (some parents, some not) abusing each other through their windows. Perhaps you were one of them. My advice would be to find a different route or to try cycling or public transport at that time in the morning. I certainly wouldn't choose to drive in London at 9 o'clock and I'd rather no-one else did when I'm trying to get my children safely across to the school gates in the morning.

But I'm not sure what the school is supposed to do about it. It's not as if they are unaware, and it certainly causes them concern. After all, it is their pupils who are put most at risk by dangerous parking and driving. The issue is regularly raised in newsletters but obviously the kind of person who risks another childs safety for their own childrens' convenience doesn't take much notice of polite appeals to common sense.

[Fuschia]

star13uk Wrote:

We also found some

> parking attendants to question - they seemed to be

> saying they avoid the school dropoff/pickup as it

> can get pretty confrontational - they prefere

> unattended vehicles, not angry parents. Something

> to take up with the LA.

I have been on a bit of a campaign about parking on the zigzags outside heber. The police attend sometimes but mostly parents don't do it when they're there.. though one or two do and then argue with the police! An inspector did ticket a parent once. the parking attendants won't do anything about cars with aprents in, it's true.

I think it needs a blitz, maybe by plain clothes police, to ticket all cars on the zig zags, for a week or two, that would soon stop the problem!!

[agathoise]

@Gubodge

I wasn't there (thanks goodness, from the sounds of it!) -- I was dropping off my (some of) my own kids (on foot) elsewhere! I pass Goodrich school in the car once a week at pick-up time on our way to an after-school activity , and it's really tricky to avoid the log-jam as it affects a couple of blocks in every direction. Once we get through the Goodrich chaos we get to enjoy the St. Francesca Cabrini snarl-up as we head over Honor Oak :'(

I've noticed that there is a school pick-up rush hour all over SE London. We home educated for years and I used to try to avoid driving during this time (2.45-4:15) (or leave early) as it added loads of time to our journeys. It was always noticeably quicker to get to our groups, classes and activities during half-term and school holidays. This leads me to believe that way more children that one would assume are driven to and from school -- all schools.

[Gubodge]

I think you'd be right. Based on my highly unscientific research, entirely based on personal observations made when cycling to and from work, the traffic at school drop-off/pick-up time seems down by about a third in the holidays.

And I'll allow you your after school activity drive. Although I expect you to be first in the queue for the bus should they ever extend the 363 route over to Honor Oak ;-)

[agathoise]

@Gubodge -- Actually I'm heading to Eltham, Honor Oak just happens to be on our route -- and, believe me, there's no easy way to get to Eltham on public transport with four children in tow! Always happy to use the bus where it's sensible and practical...

[observermum]

Hello all

I think the namecalling is appalling in this thread and should be removed by the moderator in every single instance.

I am in my mid 40's - Over the years as a parent I have noticed many things with the daily event of getting my many kids to various nursery and primary schools.

Firstly - those wonderful zig-zags I can honestly say that although they are hailed as places for people to cross safely they are not really used as such and perhaps the time has come to think of something more in keeping with modern living.

Every school has this problem as now that we are a population who own cars we like to use them as we have forked out to buy/maintain/tax/ them

I have noticed that around most schools the residents have drives if possible - they then realise that two to four times a day (if there is a nursery) they may find their access blocked.As a result they may stop using the drives on school days and park in the road - this takes up twice as much space as the car space and the drive access are now being used restricting access to an institution.

How many staff work in schools and merrily arrive before school opening - check out any road with a school and at 7am it will have plenty of space to drop off children - by 8am there will be hardly anywhere nearby as the staff will have blocked it up - why not encourage all school staff to walk if possible - or park further away as there will be 250-420+ children trying to gain access.

In the old days - children were sent into school - if they were late - they were late. There is a huge directive about attendance and timekeeping now - so people are less likely to be civil and give way - as depending on the school's management style they may well receive a written 'telling-off'

For years I have suggested that the zig-zags should instead be a set down area - with hightly visible patrollers to assist children safely out of cars (big and small) so that parents are not forced to park up and take their children through.

Also you must take into account that most schools now have nurseries - the children are younger and only stay for a few hours so that has doubled the congestion.

Parents are told that they must accompany their children into the school playground and that the school is not responsible for the children before a certain time - an even more recent gimmick is 'wake and shake' where everyone is encouraged to jig around before the whistle goes - surely it would be better to do this when the children have been dropped off. So now you have a situation where every child is accompanied by an adult instead of a staff member at the gate just allowing the pupils in.

As many have already pointed out - parents are reluctant to let their children walk to school on their own - some areas have implemented walking chains - but they expect parents to accompany as volunteers and with all the regulations about being CRB checked and concerns over insurance and liability etc etc it's easy to see why they are not a common sight.

The corners mentioned in Etherow/Friern road should be marked with double yellow lines - i'm not sure if they are at the moment as it is tight for the buses to get around anyway. (edit: they are marked with double yellow lines)

In my experience the behaviour around St.Anthony's is for the most part excellent - Cabrini is placed on a very dangerous bend and I pity any parents trying to safely navigate their way there daily for many years - there are certainly minor changes that could be made to improve the situation for everybody. This issue is not about the admission policy of the school or whether it is a faith school. It applies to all schools state, private and even little country schools.

The posts about siblings getting places (do you imagine that parents can take their children to various schools at the same time / denying another elder child a place have amazed me - are you in favour of a one-child policy?

Are others suggesting that parents should not be allowed to drive their children to school?

As for ticketing - you have to remember that every year new 'customers' arrive at each school - so every year the problem starts all over again. Unless there is a heavy presence of parking wardens or police, then it's not very effective.

ALso,there are many parents who neen to rush off to work particularly in London and expensive areas (to buy or rent) in order to keep a roof over their heads. Also with the huge demand for places and the fact that you cannot get a place unless you live nearby then it's not uncommon to read about people 'work the system' and move further away from schools when they have a place or have used false information to gain a place.

I think the parents in this country need to be congratulated, the vast majority do their utmost to create safe environments for their children and there is no-one to speak up for them.

[silverfox]

I'd let it go observermum. The wording of the thread was suspicious in the first place.

[James Barber]

Zig zags outside schools are useful for kids crossing the road but also intended as place for fire engines to park if they're called to a fire at a school. Presumably some ghastly incident once occurred where fire engines could'nt with dire or near dire consequences.

I suspect school run exacerbated for St.Anthony's as its admissions policy isn't based on nearest school. So more likely parents will need to drive. One merit of the 1/2 form entry bulge class this year at St.Anthony's, assuming the prefab classes get planning permission, will be a fewer RC kids having to traipse over to Lewisham.

Another big driver for parents driving kids to school is then driving onto work. In the past fewer families with two bread winners as well as fewer families with a car.

Regards james.

[silverfox]

And those big red things called buses James

[James Barber]

Hi silverfox,

People travel far further for work than decades ago. I'm fortunate I can cycle, train or bus to work in central London after school run but for many that isn't possible - they'd have to move for the bus to be practical or change jobs.

Saying all that I often have seen many parents walking kids to local schools including St.Anthony's.

Regards james

[observermum]

Will do Silverfox - counting the weeks until I can give up the school-run

but it's a national problem - James I looked up history of zig-zags - outside most schools the time restriction is just am and pm (even though most schools have a nursery now - what a relief for parents with nursery children when they can stop outside) - but for St.Anthony's it's an all day restriction. The problem really isn't exacerbated there either - many families walk/take scooters/ the bikes with 2/3 kids in tow are definately something I have only seen in Dulwich

http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/education/s/2066692_time_to_act_over_school_parking

I personally hate all the rushing and would rather arrive late than not at all!

[agathoise]

I think it's also worth pointing out that the VAST majority of St Anthony's students walk to school, and are VERY local. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief, distance from school IS taken into account in admissions -- I know from experience! Yes some people move during the course of their children's time at the school, and other parents work, and some of these will drive, but I'd be surprised if the ratio of children driven to school compared with those walking is greater than that for any of the other schools in the area.

-Agathoise

[James Barber]

Hi agathoise,

I'd be surprised if they do base admissions around distance from the school. This would be contrary to its formally stated admissions:

http://www.stanthonys.southwark.sch.uk/page8.html

But agree I've often seen kids being walked and scooted to school.

Did try giving them a bicycle shed but council officers faield to elicit a response so all other primary schools in East Dulwich received one but St.Anthony's didn't. Sure we'll be more successful another time.