Stabbing outside Peckham Rye station tonight

[bodsier]

dogcatdog Wrote:

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> despite the jovial hirsute craft beer bonhomie and

> sizzling artisanal fare on offer around the

> station, people still get stabbed in Peckham.

>

> Can we not move these awful people somewhere else

> ? if someone could get a 38 degrees petition

> going, I would gladly sign up

>

> signed

>

> D Duck

This group do more than petition DD, you can join the campaign ;))

http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/24553/1/reclaim-brixton-one-neighbourhood-unites-against-developers

[Grok]

Stop bullying Foxy. Pathetic playground bully.

DaveR Wrote:

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> "The problem is that the element of those who

> > carry knives know that should they get caught

> with

> > them and arrested,

> > when it come to going to court they will receive

>

> > no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours

> > community service.

> >

> > There is no deterrent..

> >

> > Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged

> > up.."

> >

> > This is up to your usual level of utter nonsense

> -

> > well done.

>

>

> A man who armed himself with a 5" knife has been

> sentenced to 200 hours community service.

>

>

>

> You can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if

> the court decides you don?t have a good reason to

> not pay your Council Tax and you refuse to do so.

>

>

>

>

> Not Nonsense.. Dozens of such incidents up and

> down the country..

>

> DF"

>

> Let's see if we can spot the difference between a

> sweeping generalisation about what "the problem

> is" and a single anecdote plus a hypothetical.

> You're talking out of your rear, yet again.*

>

> There's a bill that will supposedly find its way

> to parliament in this session that has a two

> strikes provision i.e. two knife possession

> offences = automatic prison, 6 month minimum. The

> info supporting that suggested that in 2014 about

> 35% of knife possession offences = immediate

> custody. The stats usually lump together bladed

> article and offensive weapon convictions (penknife

> or flick knife, essentially). For the latter you

> are much more likely to go to prison, even first

> time. One of the criticisms of the bill is that

> it is likelihood of getting caught which is the

> deterrent, not the sentence, and there's a fair

> amount of research that backs that up.

>

> *with the smartening up of almost all the local

> boozers, the experience of being buttonholed at

> the bar by some ignorant old git and bored for

> hours by his tendentious drivel has almost

> disappeared, but it's clearly alive and well in

> the online saloon bar.

[DaveR]

"Stop bullying Foxy. Pathetic playground bully."

If someone keeps shitting in your street, do you just keep stepping over it or do you try and persuade him to stop?

[Sue]

DaveR Wrote:

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> "Stop bullying Foxy. Pathetic playground bully."

>

> If someone keeps shitting in your street, do you

> just keep stepping over it or do you try and

> persuade him to stop?

I don't think giving factual information to counter somebody else's post can be considered "bullying".

However calling someone a "pathetic playground bully" might be....

[SLad]

Before anyone starts with the bullying rhetoric, I have no preformed opinion on Dulwich Fox but, I suspect through ignorance of the law, his post comparing the decision in a decided case to the contents of a government website warning someone of the maximum penalty is nonsense.

In the news article, the gentleman was convicted of possession of an offensive weapon probably on an agreed facts basis given the prosecutor's comments as regards the Defendant's reasons for carrying the knife and limited intention in doing so. Details of the maximum sentence which can be awarded on that crime can be found here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/knives_and_offensive_weapons/ If dealt with in the Mags Court then its a maximum sentence of 6 months' imprisonment plus fine but if handled on indictment into the Crown Court then it's up to 4 years plus fine.

So, whether dealt with in the Mags or the Crown Court the maximum sentence is more punitive than the maximum for non-payment of Council Tax.

The Defendant in the reported article looks to have made an early plea (reference to having pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing), there was probably a pre-sentencing report prepared and he was of previous good character which are all pretty good reasons why he shouldn't face the maximum and which, coupled with a relatively benevolent set of agreed facts, justify a non-custodial sentence.

If you're going to make a point about sentencing on knife crime on the back of a thread about an horrific local incident, you may as well get your references right.

As you were.

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DaveR Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "The problem is that the element of those who

> > carry knives know that should they get caught

> with

> > them and arrested,

> > when it come to going to court they will

> receive

> > no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours

> > community service.

> >

> > There is no deterrent..

> >

> > Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged

> > up.."

> >

> > This is up to your usual level of utter nonsense

> -

> > well done.

>

>

> A man who armed himself with a 5" knife has been

> sentenced to 200 hours community service.

>

> http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/3555995.Commu

> nity_service_for_knife_man/

>

> You can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if

> the court decides you don?t have a good reason to

> not pay your Council Tax and you refuse to do so.

>

> https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-arrears

>

> Not Nonsense.. Dozens of such incidents up and

> down the country..

>

> DF.

[DaveR]

On topic, there was also reference above to limiting stop and search. This is currently the subject of a big row between the Home Sec and the Met Police:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11946081/Theresa-May-says-police-knife-crime-claims-are-simply-not-true.html

The only fact about knife crime that appears clear and uncontroversial is that more carrying of knives leads to greater use of knives to injure/kill, so any strategy aimed at dissuading people from carrying knives in the first place is worth a go. Sentencing is already fairly tough, and stop and search is still fairly heavily used, so changing either of those can't be expected to have radical results. The boring truth is that education (in the broadest sense of the word) and challenging gang culture is what is going to change things (on this I agree with BlahBlah)

[rabbitears]

No, no, no, I have no time for that, I want quick, cheap and visually striking solutions that will work overnight

[uncleglen]

Well, the only answer is to leave them alone to get on with their 'gang-banging'...I'm sure the poor bloke from Basildon would agree (if he was still with us. RIP)

[Ridgley]

uncleglen wrote

Well, the only answer is to leave them alone to get on with their 'gang-banging'...I'm sure the poor bloke from Basildon would agree (if he was still with us. RIP)

The problem with that is it does not just stop among themselves it tends to filter over and some by standers gets stabbed if you happen to be there at the wrong time and place.

[JohnL]

Ridgley Wrote:

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> uncleglen wrote

>

> Well, the only answer is to leave them alone to

> get on with their 'gang-banging'...I'm sure the

> poor bloke from Basildon would agree (if he was

> still with us. RIP)

>

> The problem with that is it does not just stop

> among themselves it tends to filter over and some

> by standers gets stabbed if you happen to be there

> at the wrong time and place.

More caught in the gun crossfire I'd say (happened in New Cross didn't it)

Reading some reports from 2007 I'm certain it's quieter now. I don't feel

a bad vibe in Peckham at all - or am I just used to it ?

[Ridgley]

May be JohnL

[dogcatdog]

Its still there, but its rare to see it in the open, never mind be involved first hand in it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/06/two-teenagers-charged-with-over-stabbing-in-brockley-south-east-london

That's a kick in the arse from ED, up Norbert road way. Kid went to Kingsdale school. Its never gone away.Without getting all class war, many of the more recent residents of SE22 & SE15 would not know what it is like in some areas- they have little cause to have any interaction there

[Earl Aelfheah]

Peckham can be a bit rough. Surely this isn't a surprise to anyone?

[dogcatdog]

if you spend your time flitting between popup burger emoporia, your job in shoreditch, the commute on the ginger line the bussey building and your house on Bellend road like a hirsute social butterfly, then it is entirely possible not to realise this

[JohnL]

dogcatdog Wrote:

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> if you spend your time flitting between popup

> burger emoporia, your job in shoreditch, the

> commute on the ginger line the bussey building and

> your house on Bellend road like a hirsute social

> butterfly, then it is entirely possible not to

> realise this

Peckham wetherspoons is my worst - did get asked if I wanted to do business once.

It's quite busy these days.

And in Camberwell a lad asked me for ?1 - gave him a ?1 - and then asked how many wraps.

The pound was some kind of code :) - I slinked off.