Stabbing outside Peckham Rye station tonight

[twinsmom]

Road is blocked in both directions outside peckham rye station and all buses are on diversion.

[uncleglen]

What a surprise- it's about time those arches were installed to detect weapons

[richard tudor]

At least when they demolish all those ugly concrete buildings you will be able to see your attacker coming across the open courtyard

[JohnL]

Is this linked with Kids Company folding ? (I very much doubt it myself)

2 stabbings and a shooting this week.

I felt no bad atmosphere for a few years now.

[dogcatdog]

despite the jovial hirsute craft beer bonhomie and sizzling artisanal fare on offer around the station, people still get stabbed in Peckham.

Can we not move these awful people somewhere else ? if someone could get a 38 degrees petition going, I would gladly sign up

signed

D Duck

[uncleglen]

There was a fatal stabbing of a schoolboy in Ilford at lunchtime yesterday...outside of the Kid's Company region I think....

[DulwichFox]

The problem is that the element of those who carry knives know that should they get caught with them and arrested,

when it come to going to court they will receive no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours community service.

There is no deterrent..

Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged up..

DulwichFox

[DaveR]

"The problem is that the element of those who carry knives know that should they get caught with them and arrested,

when it come to going to court they will receive no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours community service.

There is no deterrent..

Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged up.."

This is up to your usual level of utter nonsense - well done.

[richard tudor]

What does happen to those caught with knives?

[JohnL]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There was a fatal stabbing of a schoolboy in

> Ilford at lunchtime yesterday...outside of the

> Kid's Company region I think....

Yes - what was said in Parliament by Kids Company was just strange.

Wonder where those grants went really.

[dogcatdog]

Does anyone truly think that the carrying of a knife is a decision taken lightly?

Whatever the preconceptions held about the users, a judgement is made by those who carry them as to benefits vs risks. Its a pretty serious situation when a potential custodial is deemed to be a the least worrysome outcome. I would warrant most on here cannot comprehend what it must be like to have to make this decision.

[JohnL]

dogcatdog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone truly think that the carrying of a

> knife is a decision taken lightly?

>

> Whatever the preconceptions held about the users,

> a judgement is made by those who carry them as to

> benefits vs risks. Its a pretty serious situation

> when a potential custodial is deemed to be a the

> least worrysome outcome. I would warrant most on

> here cannot comprehend what it must be like to

> have to make this decision.

Most people here (including me) are so outside the demographic

it would be difficult, I agree. (I read the Evening Standard report

on Angell/Brixton).

[tiger ranks]

this is a result of all the cuts the government have put in place and

stupid laws in reference to stop and search

police are not allowed to keep stopping and searching the same kids even if the police know that the person is known to them

my personal view is black or white if you have nothing on you what is wrong with been searched???

if you are known as a troublemaker to the police and are seen on the streets prepare to be searched as many times as the police want to

our prisons are full and the same with juvenile prison and these little tearaway kids know this

harsh words but we are to soft on these tearaway so called rude boy children

[Mick Mac]

tiger ranks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> my personal view is black or white if you have

> nothing on you what is wrong with been

> searched???

>

You might consider it an invasion of privacy if you were completely law abiding and this searching was a regular thing.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tiger ranks Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > my personal view is black or white if you have

> > nothing on you what is wrong with been

> > searched???

> >

>

> You might consider it an invasion of privacy if

> you were completely law abiding and this searching

> was a regular thing.

There is provision in law now for stop and search.

https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights

If I remember there was some opposition to these laws.

[uncleglen]

They all think that everyone else is carrying that's the problem. A lot of them carry other implements and thinking about it and having experience of the alternatives, I doubt if metal detecting arches would make much of an impact....makes me wonder how they were 'brought' up- although the American sociologist Charles Murray did predict 40 years ago that by making it lucrative to breed we were breeding an underclass as the underclass breed 3.6 kids per family as opposed to 1.2 kids for the 'educated' classes.....doesn't take long for that to make an impact + almost unrestricted immigration in the Blair years....recipe for disaster

[dogcatdog]

I don't mean to sound like an A level sociology student, but tooling up the *totes* trustworthy filth is not going to resolve this problem in any way.

[DuncanW]

Sentencing guidelines for carrying an offensive weapon:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/knives_and_offensive_weapons/

It seems that these offences are taken seriously by the courts but but won't always be met with a custodial sentence. It's worth bearing in mind that we lock up more of our citizens than any other EU country. It's very expensive to do so and not proven to be effective at reducing crime levels. Although obviously appropriate in many cases, keeping young offenders out of the prison system wherever possible is preferred as other routes to rehabilitation have better success rates.

That said, there is no excuse for carrying a knife - we need to be clear about that. It can't be blamed on Kids' Club going under or anything else. We need to understand the factors which can lead to this type of behaviour, sure - but the decision to carry, or in this case use a knife is made by that individual alone.

I hope the individual who was stabbed is okay!

[uncleglen]

Locking them up is like sending them to a finishing school for crims- I know that a lot of them think that some sort of record, or mug shot on 'Most Wanted' is a badge of honour...must be second generation..

[Otta]

People were stabbing people even when they could be stopped and searched. This is not nee.

[DulwichFox]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "The problem is that the element of those who

> carry knives know that should they get caught with

> them and arrested,

> when it come to going to court they will receive

> no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours

> community service.

>

> There is no deterrent..

>

> Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged

> up.."

>

> This is up to your usual level of utter nonsense -

> well done.

A man who armed himself with a 5" knife has been sentenced to 200 hours community service.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/3555995.Community_service_for_knife_man/

You can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if the court decides you don?t have a good reason to not pay your Council Tax and you refuse to do so.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-arrears

Not Nonsense.. Dozens of such incidents up and down the country..

DF.

[DuncanW]

Can't you be sent to prison for non-payment of fines originating from any offence, or refusal to pay taxes.

Are there any examples of anyone who has been sent to prison unreasonably for this? Apart from Lester Piggott?

[Blah Blah]

50 years ago, pretty much every schoolboy carried a pen knife. It's not the carrying of a knife that is the issue, but the reasons for carrying it. DuncanW is correct when looking at success rates vs different kinds of intervention. Most kids who carry knives are copying the culture they find themselves in (one of hierarchy and fear). They aren't really aware of the implications of law and killing someone. Bullies used to just beat you up if you didn't hand over your dinner money. Now they threaten you with a knife if you don't hand over your iphone, and so the cycle continues.

People get stabbed everywhere in London. So comments about Peckham as though knife crime only happens there are not helpful. Nor is any other stereotyping, and that ridulous line from uncleglen (clearly a troll) of underclass vs educated class.

With young people, the earlier the intervention the better, but it's hard to maintain if the wider culture doesn't change too. No easy solutions.

[JohnL]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 50 years ago, pretty much every schoolboy carried

> a pen knife. It's not the carrying of a knife that

> is the issue, but the reasons for carrying it.

> DuncanW is correct when looking at success rates

> vs different kinds of intervention. Most kids who

> carry knives are copying the culture they find

> themselves in (one of hierarchy and fear). They

> aren't really aware of the implications of law and

> killing someone. Bullies used to just beat you up

> if you didn't hand over your dinner money. Now

> they threaten you with a knife if you don't hand

> over your iphone, and so the cycle continues.

>

> People get stabbed everywhere in London. So

> comments about Peckham as though knife crime only

> happens there are not helpful. Nor is any other

> stereotyping, and that ridulous line from

> uncleglen (clearly a troll) of underclass vs

> educated class.

>

> With young people, the earlier the intervention

> the better, but it's hard to maintain if the wider

> culture doesn't change too. No easy solutions.

In around 2006 Peckham was the well known gang though

with "the infamous shootout" as mentioned here and the other

stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckham_Boys

not sure what the Time Out mag movers and shakers was for

- a bit strange ?

Seems to be a bit of a battle going on with that wiki page if

you click "view history"

[DaveR]

"The problem is that the element of those who

> carry knives know that should they get caught with

> them and arrested,

> when it come to going to court they will receive

> no more than a slap on the wrist and 80 hours

> community service.

>

> There is no deterrent..

>

> Falter on your Council Tax and you get banged

> up.."

>

> This is up to your usual level of utter nonsense -

> well done.

A man who armed himself with a 5" knife has been sentenced to 200 hours community service.

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

You can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if the court decides you don?t have a good reason to not pay your Council Tax and you refuse to do so.

[www.gov.uk]

Not Nonsense.. Dozens of such incidents up and down the country..

DF"

Let's see if we can spot the difference between a sweeping generalisation about what "the problem is" and a single anecdote plus a hypothetical. You're talking out of your rear, yet again.*

There's a bill that will supposedly find its way to parliament in this session that has a two strikes provision i.e. two knife possession offences = automatic prison, 6 month minimum. The info supporting that suggested that in 2014 about 35% of knife possession offences = immediate custody. The stats usually lump together bladed article and offensive weapon convictions (penknife or flick knife, essentially). For the latter you are much more likely to go to prison, even first time. One of the criticisms of the bill is that it is likelihood of getting caught which is the deterrent, not the sentence, and there's a fair amount of research that backs that up.

*with the smartening up of almost all the local boozers, the experience of being buttonholed at the bar by some ignorant old git and bored for hours by his tendentious drivel has almost disappeared, but it's clearly alive and well in the online saloon bar.