Cycling on pavement (Dulwich College)

[thexwinglessxbird]

Does it matter how many? It doesn't make it okay, Trinity. People were still killed.

[thexwinglessxbird]

Imagine how many injured.

[bigapple]

I would be happy for kids to cycle on the pavements if they had been taught some basic rules about sharing it with pedestrians. Eg. cycling at a safe speed and always using a bell in good time to warn a pedestrian ahead of the cyclist's approach. The local schools could help with this by running courses for younger children, graduating to learning how to cycle on the road when they reach an age when they are mature enough to do this. I think there are training courses offered at the Herne Hill Velodrome and that schools can also plug into this. Maybe a "Safe Cyclist" badge could be issued to kids who pass the course. In fact, schools could provide cycle racks/storage only to kids who have earned a "Safe Cyclist" badge - (with their name displayed on it to prevent cheating). That would also put more responsibility on parents. Surely this is more constructive than slagging off Dulwich College boys as the problem is much more widespread. It's a campaign East Dulwich and West Dulwich forums could get together to initiate. Especially as the Council, TfL and all schools are required to come up with a "school travel plan" these days.

My biggest gripe is with (mostly adult) cyclists who ignore all the rules when cycling on the roads - especially cycling at night without lights (and in dark clothing), ignoring the traffic laws against going through red lights etc. Hey, I might have a defence if I run over a cyclist in those circumstances, but I don't want to live with the guilt and anguish of injuring someone, even an idiot! Let's also put more pressure on our local police to enforce the law relating to cyclists.

[trinity]

Zebedee Tring asked us to remember how many were killed so I provided the information I could find .

Obviously tragic for the family involved put puts the hysteria in perspective.

My 9 year old daughter was almost hit by an adult cyclist whilst on the pavement three days ago. It makes him a reckless idiot. But we were also passed by 10's of cyclists who were respectful and careful. Lots of people and kids who would otherwise be in cars making the environment less safe for my daughter.

I am happy to take my chance with the cyclists.

[Zebedee Tring]

Internet item from 19/11/07:

'A cyclist who caused the death of a man by riding ?furiously? has escaped a jail sentence.

Peter Messen pedalled down a hill at around 25 mph before hitting Gary Green as he loaded his car in preparation for a holiday with his girlfriend. Messen mounted the kerb on his Apollo mountain bike just as Green stepped onto the pavement, knocking him unconscious to the floor. Green died four days later on April 3 last year after suffering serious head injuries.

Messen was given a 12-month suspended jail sentence and 300 hours of community service. He had pleaded guilty to the offence of ?causing bodily harm by wanton or furious cycling under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, which carried a maximum jail sentence of two years'.

He was extremely lucky to get away with what was in effect a slap on the wrist.

[trinity]

Agreed - truely dreadful incident and extremely rare

[pablopuncheur]

I think that the cycling element in this is a complete red herring.

This argument is not about cyclists v pedestrians v drivers. What we are actually looking at is people who are considerate v people who are inconsiderate a$$holes.

I'm pretty confident that the cyclist that buzzes you on a pavement will probably be the person who also barges past you in Sainsburys or would cut you up if they were driving a car.

A considerate cyclist probably has far more in common with a considerate driver/pedestrian than an inconsiderate fellow cyclist.

These debates mask the real problem - that we have a city full of people, of all ages, who feel that the world revolves around them personally and have no respect or concern for other people. Their mode of transport has nothing to do with it.

[Curly]

I read somewhere recently that anyone can ride on a bike on the pavement as long as the wheels are 14inch or smaller. Sorry but I can't remember where I read that!

[Nicholas]

As I said in an earlier post, I don't have a problem with kids riding on the pavements, as long as they show respect for pedestrians and dismount when necessary. How many times do you see a cyclist flouting the law,not stopping at red traffic lights, riding down oneway streets the wrong way the list goes on don't get me wrong there are some law abiding cyclists out there,unfortunatley I don't see that many. Maybe we need some compulsory training and test, just a thought.

[Horsebox]

thexwinglessxbird Wrote:

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> Urgh. My mum almost got run over by some big grown

> Jamaican guy for cycling on the pavement at the

> bottom of Barry Road. The most annoying part is

> how the pavement was completely clear but he

> cycled towards my mum on the same side, coming so

> close she almost got run over - the idiot had no

> intention of minding where he was going but still

> apologized. Grr! My mum wants to report this guy,

> but there's no way of distinguishing him, other

> than that he was a black Jamaican fully-grown man

> dressed head-to-toe in white.

Clearly, the problem here is Jamaicans.

Jamaicans on bikes (6)

[thexwinglessxbird]

Lol. Nawwwwwww... but it was the only way to distinguish this guy.

[pablopuncheur]

Nicholas Wrote:

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> As I said in an earlier post, I don't have a

> problem with kids riding on the pavements, as long

> as they show respect for pedestrians and dismount

> when necessary. How many times do you see a

> cyclist flouting the law,not stopping at red

> traffic lights, riding down oneway streets the

> wrong way the list goes on don't get me wrong

> there are some law abiding cyclists out

> there,unfortunatley I don't see that many. Maybe

> we need some compulsory training and test, just a

> thought.

I see as many drivers using mobile phones whilst driving or drivers buzzing past pedestrians using zebra crossings pretending not to see them as I see cyclists who run red lights. Despite a compulsory test our roads are still infected with bad drivers. Why should a compulsory test make any difference to bad cyclists?

I reiterate it's not a question of mode of transport its a question of some peoples lack of concern and respect to those around them in general. That's the real problem here.

[Applespider]

Southwark will pay for both adults and children to have cycling training lessons. The idea is to make people more aware of how to behave on the roads when cycling (e.g. how to be more visible in behaviour to drivers) and improve their confidence. The lessons don't have to be done just as school sessions - they can be one on one.

Linkety here (ignore where it says 2006/7 - it is still ongoing as a friend did it earlier this year)

[Nicholas]

trinity Wrote:

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> Agreed - truely dreadful incident and extremely

> rare

I agree there are loads of drivers on mobiles flouting the law daily with no regards for anyone.

On the subject of irresponsible bad cyclist, I think a theory type test mainly covering the Highway code would be a good idea.

Im not a cyclist myself, but as a driver I have respect for all law abiding road users,pavements included.

Being injured by a cyclist is still pretty rare,as far as im aware?

[sillywoman]

As a cyclist, driver and Mum of 3 small cyclists (who do use the pavements) I think that big apple's suggestions are eminently sensible. I nag, and nag at my boys to 'always ring your bell if you're coming up behind people' and 'always say thankyou when people move to let you pass', 'slow down as you approach people' and so on, and so on but there are no recognised 'rules' for kids cycling on pavements so I can only try & instill in them what I consider to be the essentials. Sometimes I feel I'm floundering in the dark. In the absence of any safe cycle lanes, or routes to school, a proper training course for 'school cyclists' would be great.

It's hard with kids, as by their very nature they are still completely egocentric and can find it hard to understand the impact of any inconsiderate cycling on the pavements - they just don't think that cycling up behind someone might be frightening or shocking for them. I'm not excusing bad cycling behavior, just trying to explore some of the issues that may be at play.

personally there's no way I'd let my 5, 9 or dippy 12 year old ride on the roads - they'd just be lorry fodder. Though my 12 year old has had the excellent free southwark training he just doesn't yet have the common sense or foresight necessary to judge traffic situations adequately. And sadly the times of day they need to use the roads coincide with the busiest, and therefore most dangerous, time on the roads.

[Nicholas]

Hi, you sound like a sensible hard working mum of three. And you give your kids the right advice. I agree they would be lorry fodder. I don't see anything wrong with responsible kids riding on the pavements,lets face it some roads and drivers are leathal.

[womanofdulwich]

I agree silly woman makes a valid point- but i have no time for adults ( or anyone over 13) cycling on pavements. Really the more people that cycle on the roads the better for all cyclists- strength in numbers etc etc.

[computedshorty]

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[star13uk]

I would rather see an offence of "Dangerous cycling" than the blanket No Cycling on the pavement. I have seen a dozen or so squashed and countles damaged cyclists over the last six years from encounters with HGV's and buses. I ride a motorbike and think cyclists in the traffic are insane. Elderly folks, mothers with young children and pedestrians in general hate cyclist on their pavements - for good reason. If cyclists take care when the pavemnents are busy - get off and walk it through the bus queues etc - cycling on an empty footpath in a safe and considerate manner makes a lot more sense than clogging up our narrow roads and risking life and limb. But... politically cyclist on pavements are the flavour of the times - but it tends to be the reasonable, generally law abiding riders who stop, give a correct name and address - who get the tickets. Stopping a cyclist who does not want to stop is problamatical. Knock him off? Guess who gets in trouble then?

[sillywoman]

Nicholas Wrote:

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> Hi, you sound like a sensible hard working mum of

> three.

4 actually ;-)

and thankyou - what a nice person you sound. I like you.

[Gubodge]

It may have been one of your boys that my 4 year old came to a bit of a stalemate with. Both children had obviously had it drummed into them that when you get to a narrow point you wait for the other person to go through. They could have been there for hours.

[thexwinglessxbird]

I saw a grown man doing this again today - I could have screamed at him! But I muttered that he shouldn't be riding a bike on the pavement.

Should have pushed him into the road...

[LegalEagle-ish]

The problem is the fact that roads are not safe for all road users.

If drivers respected cyclists as legitimate traffic, instead of just thinking they are blocking traffic (them), then maybe cyclists wouldn't need to cycle on the footpaths.

[womanofdulwich]

i think all drivers should be made to ride a bike for 30 mins and the same for cyclists( in reverse)

[computedshorty]

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