Cycling on pavement (Dulwich College)

[Zebedee Tring]

When walking back from the newsagent this morning with my Grauniad under my arm, I was nearly run over by three boys wearing the uniform of Dulwich College who were speedily cycling on the pavement. I told them that they should cycle on the road; however, Dulwich College boys are not as well brought up as in the good old days and they totally ignored me and continued cycling on the pavement.

I then encountered another Dulwich College boy cycling on the pavement adjacent to his yummy mummy who was cycling on the road. When I remonstrated with her she said that the police had told her that children could cycle on the pavement up to the age of 14. I replied that this was a likely story, to which said yummy mummy in turn replied that this would stop him being knocked off his bike. I should have in turn replied 'What about me being knocked over by a bluddy bike?', but there seemed to be little point remonstrating with her further as she was clearly beyond redemption.

Surely this stuff about kids up to 14 being allowed to ride on the pavement is a load of what might euphemisticall be called bolleaux. To quote a legal website that I have consulted, 'Cycling on footways (a pavement at the side of a carriageway) is prohibited by Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835, amended by Section 85(1) of the Local Government Act 1888. This is punishable by a fixed penalty notice of ?30 under Section 51 and Schedule 3 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.' . What do other people think?

[taper]

The full skinny is here:

http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php

Key section reads:

CAN CHILDREN CYCLE ON PAVEMENTS?

According to the Department for Transport (DfT), the maximum fine for cycling on the pavement from the courts is ?500. However it is more usually enforced by way of the Fixed Penalty Notice procedure (FPN) which carries a ?30 fine if pleading guilty. However, there is a view that the FPN can only be issued to those over 16.

"The DfT view, from discussions with Home Office, is that the law applies to all but the police can show discretion to younger children cycling on the pavement for whom cycling on the road would not be a safe option."

The age of criminal responsibility is 10 so, technically, only children below this age can cycle on pavements without fear of redress.

While adults are not allowed to cycle on 'footways' (see definition above), children up to the age of 16 cannot be prosecuted for doing so, see text above for clarification.

When using segregated cycle-paths ie signed footways shared with pedestrians, cyclists ought to keep to the side intended for cyclists.

[James Barber]

Additionally, some pavements are legally shared use where walking and cycling are allowed.

Along the south circular close to Dulwich College a number of sections of pavement have this status.

You should be able to see a little blue round sign with picture of bike and adult holding a smaller persons hand on posts at regular intervals.

However, cycling, running or walking without consideration for those around you is to be deplored. But if they didn't cycle with all the indenepence that brings a high proportion would be driven to school. Most winters a spate of muggings of Dulwich pupils occurs. Cycling is one way to reduce their chances of being such victims.

rgards james barber

Liberal Democrat councillor for East Dulwich

Cycling and Walking Champion for Southwark

[puzzled]

I find that a judicious nudge as they ride past works wonders. bladdy cyclisys!!

[Sqiggles]

What drives me mad is when they cycle up behind you full pelt and then ding their little bells to tell you to get out of their way, as if you are in the wrong for walking on the pavement. Quite why they can't say excuse me I do not know! But other than that, if the cycle slowly and carefully, with consideration, I think it is live and let live. Of course, that is quite a big if!

[Zebedee Tring]

Puzzled, you will be pleased to hear that once when a cyclist rode along Denmark Hill across a pedestrian crossing near Kings and nearly knocked me over, I gave one of the wheels of his bike a bluddy good kicking and he nearly came off it.

Mr Barber, the Dulwich College boys about whom I was complaining were at the time cycling nowhere near Dulwich College but were cycling on the pavement in a couple of roads near Alleyns where the pavement is not shared between pedestrians and cyclists.

If children of secondary school age are too nervous to cycle on the road, then they shouldn't cycle at all and either use public transport to get to school, or indeed walk. A nice brisk walk from ED to Dulwich College every day would do these boys a power of good.

[woofmarkthedog]

I know what next eh, cars on the pavement then a bloody anarchy.

[womanofdulwich]

what about all those stupid women with baskets on the front of their bikes? they are just as bad.

[Loz]

Children under 16 can't get a FPN?? Good grief. Change the law - make the parents legally responsible and give it to them...

[Amelie]

Dear Zebedee

Have you considered writing to the Master at Dulwich College and/or the Governors of the Edward Alleyn Foundation? You could point out to them that as no DC boys are aged 10 and under no DC boys should be cycling with impunity on pavements which are not 'legally' shared. Perhaps a stern word at morning assembly might help.

[Applespider]

I don't have a problem with kids (or to be honest anyone else) on the pavement where the pavement is relatively wide and there are relatively few pedestrians. I get nervous along some stretches of London roads when cycling - particularly along busy bus routes or where cars park on both sides.

However, I have to mention the DC boy who hurtles down towards the Harvester from the top of Horniman on the pavement. It's not that wide, there's a bus-stop halfway down the road which is generally fairly busy at that time in the morning but he comes down with little disregard for anyone standing there. At least if you're going to use the pavement, if you get to a busier section, get off and walk. Although I have a friend who was asked by a PCSO not to even walk with her bike on the pavement which seemed pretty harsh!

[SCSB79]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Puzzled, you will be pleased to hear that once

> when a cyclist rode along Denmark Hill across a

> pedestrian crossing near Kings and nearly knocked

> me over, I gave one of the wheels of his bike a

> bluddy good kicking and he nearly came off it.

>

Wow - you seem like a cool person. Maybe I'll give the next pedestrian that walks out infront of me a "bluddy good kicking" huh.

what a nob.

[trinity]

Amelie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dear Zebedee

>

> Have you considered writing to the Master at

> Dulwich College and/or the Governors of the Edward

> Alleyn Foundation? You could point out to them

> that as no DC boys are aged 10 and under no DC

> boys should be cycling with impunity on pavements

> which are not 'legally' shared. Perhaps a stern

> word at morning assembly might help.

Dulwich College boys start at year 3 ie age 7

[Zebedee Tring]

Two wrongs don't make a right, SCSB79 (or may I be so familiar as to call you 'SCS'?) Pedestrians who walk in front of bicycles (and indeed cars) deserve all they get as well. And it was the bloke's bike that I kicked, not the cyclist himself.

And who exactly are you addressing as a 'nob'?

[SCSB79]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> And who exactly are you addressing as a 'nob'?

The person who thinks it is ok to lash out a kick someone's bike.

[Zebedee Tring]

SCS, since I am 6ft 2in and heavily built, if you came face to face with me in the street, you would not call me a 'nob', not unless you were rather reckless. You can disagree with me as much as you like, but you cannot descend to gratuitous insults on this Board. There is far too much of this sort of language on chat rooms these days. Unless you withdraw that insult, I will contact the moderator and ask for you to be banned from the Board. I hope that the moderator is observing this.

[Administrator]

I am observing this and I will remind people that both insulting others and bragging about physical attacks on others (and their property) are both things that are not acceptable on the forum so please do not do it. To be honest I would not ban someone for calling someone else a 'nob' but they would be told off if the matter was reported.

End of the matter.

[Amelie]

Trinity

I was thinking of DC boys at the senior school, which is what they were when I was at JAGS in the 1980s. The younger boys always mean Dulwich Prep rather than College to me but I take your point.

[titch juicy]

is there a 'head in hands' smiley?

6'2" and heavily built- but get's desperately upset by a couple of boys on bikes

at least you survived to tell the tale eh? it must've been so harrowing for you

goodness knows what would happen if some real yobs approached you

apologies for my sardonic post, but really

[Zebedee Tring]

Titchy juice, please note Administrator's note above about posters insulting each other. For the record, I was nearly knocked down by the bike in question, which was travelling at speed. If he had hit me, the good news is that Kings A&E was opposite. The bad news is that he, like other cyclists hitting pedestrians, could have killed me, which would have been harrowing for my wife in a year in which one of my sons died of leukaemia and she spend several months in hospital with MRSA.

[Nicholas]

I dont have a problem if its children riding on the pavements,some of our roads and drivers are leathal.

Nevertheless pavements are for pedestrians, so cyclists should dismount were necessary,and respect that.

[thexwinglessxbird]

Urgh. My mum almost got run over by some big grown Jamaican guy for cycling on the pavement at the bottom of Barry Road. The most annoying part is how the pavement was completely clear but he cycled towards my mum on the same side, coming so close she almost got run over - the idiot had no intention of minding where he was going but still apologized. Grr! My mum wants to report this guy, but there's no way of distinguishing him, other than that he was a black Jamaican fully-grown man dressed head-to-toe in white.

I remember my little brother, in his early stages of walking, always getting run over my Cyclists on the pavement! It really is dangerous... especially when there are toddlers about.

[Zebedee Tring]

Yes, and remember that a number of cyclists have actually killed pedestrians when cycling on the pavement or ignoring traffic lights/pedestrian crossings. It isn't a trivial matter

[trinity]

How many pedestrians have been killed by cyclist whilst on the pavement?

[trinity]

According to Hansard

2004 1 pedestrian killed by cyclist on a pavement

2003 4 pedestrians killed by cyclist - none on pavement

2002 4 pedestrians killed by cyclist - none on pavement