What are peoples thoughts on proposals to close to traffic Turney rd, Court lane & Rosendale rd??

[Melihoople]

I'm quite concerned about the TFL proposals and wanted too know what other people thought?? I think it will make life more difficult for the local community.

[steveo]

I heard Court Lane was going to be a short take off and landing airstrip

[slarti b]

Melihoople asked

What are peoples thoughts on proposals to close to traffic Turney rd, Court lane & Rosendale rd??

I assume you are talking about Quietways? If so this covered more fully in another thread but, in answer to your question,

- Turney Road.

One of the published Quietway options involves blocking motor vehicles at bridge by junction with Croxted rd. There was chaos last year when they closed road to repair bridge, hopefully they will have learned from that.

- Court Lane

6 options presented at last week's workshop.

2 involved making Court Lane one way\no-entry at junction with Dulwich Village. This would increase traffic on Calton so unlikley to go ahead?

2 "blue sky" options involved closing DV junction to East\West traffic. Apart from having a massive impact on local residents they would also increase traffic on Quietway along Calton . Personally I think these 2 options were straw men

2 Options involved changing priority at Court Lane\Calton junction.

- Rosendale closure

- I think this is now off the table, but check with your local councillor (Lambeth for this one)

[Melihoople]

Ahh. A neighbour who went to one of the consultations wad under the impression that none of the road closures were off the table... And as you've described above it sounds like madness. Yes have emailed my councillor. Crazy times!

[Rockets]

I think road planners have started smoking crack....what on earth are they trying to do - did someone declare war on drivers?

What with this, Loughborough Junction, Melbourne Grove etc it seems that local councils and authorities want to create a life of misery for anyone who might actually have to get around this bustling city of ours.

Perhaps some of them should pool their limited grey matter and maybe analyse why people are using those routes, where are they going. I suspect much of the traffic along Court Lane and Turney Road is school related so perhaps they should work closely with schools to organise something similar to the school bus programme in the US. Now there you go, that idea took about 30 seconds to come up with.....

[Tigres Pride]

If you read their proposals, YES they have declared war on drivers. They want to restrict car ownership/use/parking all round, get more people walking or bike-riding and even discourage people from riding on buses. Which is all very well for the fit amongst the population but the rest of us who can barely hobble to the bus stop are going to be F***** good and proper.

[Rockets]

Tigres...I agree their proposals are utterly unrealistic. Unfortunately for them we don't live in Victorian Britain where we all work, study and play within a stone's throw of where we live. Nor do the majority of people work, study or play along the antiquated and shambolic transportation routes into and out of town.

These are just the type of job-justification plans that 10 years down the line everyone says "what were we thinking....."

[slarti b]

I am (mostly) a cyclist and I am fully in favour of measures that make my journey easier and safer. However I don't think this should be done at the cost of making life a misery for other road users, whether cars, delivery vans or buses. From a personal viewpoint I also sometimes use buses and a car, like many people in London, so my view is not entirely altruistic!

The problem with some of the schemes we are currently seeing is that they are being pushed through for doctrinaire reasons without thinking through the implications and effects on the rest of the community. The closure of Loughborough junction is a particularly bad example of this.

I would encourage everyone to make sure their voice is heard at an early stage in the consultation processes and, if you are unhappy , write to your local councillors to ensure that they are aware of what their constituents want. Make sure you know what schemes they support and don't let them take your votes for granted!

[tiddles]

Oh Good God. I cannot work out if they are genuine idiots, or are having a laugh at seeing how much they can mess thinks about. I can only assume that none of the people involved in any of the decision making live around here. The townley road fiasco, the melbourne grove muddle, double yellow lines across driveways, 20mph on major routes.

the south circular was CHAOS when turney road was closed from the bridge by rosendale.

Give me strength.

[edhistory]

At the meeting were ther any plans of the possible Court Lane - Dekker Road - Woodwarde Road - Calton Avenue gyratory system?

[wulfhound]

@edhistory they seemed to be backing away from those designs. Somehow they failed to notice that making Court Lane one-way would create a de-facto gyratory with Woodwarde Road & push /more/ traffic on to the Quietway. At the last workshop, they acknowledged that this would create more problems than it would solve - which is perhaps why they've put more radical answers including closing the eastern arm of the junction entirely. (Although, if I got the gist of it right - they haven't actually done the traffic modelling to say whether the council could implement that if it wanted to, this is "early community engagement").

[first mate]

Tigres Prides,

Yes S'wark Labour, seemingly supported by the Lib Dems, have a five year plan to: "calm" or "design out" cars on residential roads and to remove parking on main roads. This is just the beginning of a series of "exciting" initiatives to get us all out of our cars and walking or cycling everywhere.

For anyone who wants to read it it is all there in the latest cycling strategy document which also claims that a fullscale public consultation has taken place ensbling the above to go ahead. Allegedly, we support this.

So, our roads and traffic infrastructure are, at great expense, being deliberately torn apart so that we can be managed out of our cars and forced into transport habits deemed most appropriate for us by this Council and its supporters.

Meanwhile, on another thread one poster reports that the new and unnecessary, though expensive, works on Nx caused her to trip. Calls for improvement to paving on many streets in the area have been dismissed...not enough money. Councillors are also way too busy rearranging our lives, our roads and waging war on all car owners.

[apbremer]

No limit to their Madness.

[edhistory]

Does the Dulwich Society Transport (Sub) Committee have a view?

[DulwichFox]

Councilor Barber's Vision of Cycle Super Highway..

Four Wheels Bad.. Two Wheels Good

[Townleygreen]

Look, folks, face the facts!

London's population is growing fast - it will be close to 10 million in the next few years.

London's roads are not capable of infinite expansion.

Already air pollution from motor vehicles is at impossibly high levels, leading to thousands of deaths each year.

What is the answer? Clearly, to discourage motor transport as much as possible, and encourage walking, cycling and public transport.

THIS is the reason that these changes are being brought forward.

Stop burying your head in the sand - you can use your car for driving out from your home into the country, or use a zip car.

Get yourself a bicycle and use these routes when they are up and running.

[first mate]

TG, it is too much too soon and it will create a lot of stress and anger. I accept it is being done with good intentions but it has not been properly thought through, that is evident from everything we have seen thus far. It is also pretty outrageous that claims to full public consultation are being made, when we know this is not the case.

People will not have access to cars if they cannot park them and if they are to be 'designed' out of residential streets in 5 years. There is unlikely to be a time in the near and medium future when everyone that might need a zip car at short notice will have access to one- where will all these cars be kept?

[Townleygreen]

I don't know, presumably there are plenty of side streets (not involved in these Quietways?) that could take them.

I agree it is creating stress, and it doesn't help that what I said in my post is not being spelled out by Boris & Co, so many are still in the dark about this.

[first mate]

TG, yes space on streets if every private car owner gets rid, but then there will not be enough zip cars for all, given that S'wark wnat to avoid parked cars to amke cycling easier. Nor will people be able to easily access get into country etc.. unless they are fit enough to cycle that far, and let's not get into family commitments and so on. Public transport is unreliable and expensive too.

Sorry, as I said, these measures smack of bright eyed fanatacism and not much pragmatism.

Agree re Boris but, though undeniably intelligent, he is a master of gesture politics; detail has never been his thing.

Wholsale redesigning of our streets and car ownership in 5 years is all about detail.

[Townleygreen]

They ARE pragmatic but they won't work unless people like us support them and try to make them as good as we can.

Keeping the the status quo just isn't a possibility.

Unless you want to demolish whole areas of London to create new roads to cater for London's rising population.

Why do you think London's 20-35 year olds are rejecting owning a car? They're being realistic.

[Hagrid]

Calton Rd, Court lane and Turney during the school holidays even in the morning are silent. There is no problem with traffic. If I was coming up with Blue Sky ideas I would encourage/enforce the local schools to look at park and rides to school (drop off outside of Dulwich, enforce no drop off zones and encourage the use buses . Or even making (god forbid) kids walk.

Once you work out that with the three private schools combined with local primaries and secondary schools, there are about 5,000 kids within a two mile radius going to school. Thats a lot of potential cars. Stop driving to and from school and you're half way there.

[first mate]

No TG, they do it because they can and it suits them at this juncture.

I am not advocating everyone driving into London; many of us need a car for work outside London or other important reasons but, if S'wark has its way, will be simply unable to own and keep one in the near future- sorry that is just not pragmatic and will put a lot of people under a lot of pressure. Again change should happen but not at this speed.

[Rockets]

TG - your approach to this is admirable but somewhat unrealistic. These plans are not pragmatic - as we have seen on numerous threads on this forum they are ill-convinced, badly-designed and executed and ultimately do nothing but aggravate people trying to live in the city and many would argue actually create more pollution due to increased traffic congestion.

Your utopian mantra of ditch the car and get on a bike is just not practical for the majority of people living or going about their business in the city and I think the numerous threads on this, and other, forum/s shows how much people are not supporting these ideals - or at least the execution therein.

And I don't think anyone is suggesting demolishing anything to make way for new roads (and I would suggest London's road system hasn't been expanded for decades - it's the same layout it has been for a very long time) but to take a balanced approach to traffic management to make journey times for everyone as quick, convenient and a safe as possible whilst at the same time protecting the environment as much as possible.

[Townleygreen]

Rockets, I disagree with your second para. How come my three children who live and work in London (not at home anymore though) can survive without cars? They all have driving licences, but see public transport as the best way to get around the city. One cycles everywhere she possibly can.

I suggest it is the older generation that needs to change its ways. You haven't addressed my points about pollution. Presumably you are happy to see so many Londoners die each year from YOUR pollution from YOUR car?

Where do you suggest the two million new Londoners fit into this? Where do you think their cars are going to go if we follow your ideas?

[rodneybewes]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TG - your approach to this is admirable but

> somewhat unrealistic. These plans are not

> pragmatic - as we have seen on numerous threads on

> this forum they are ill-convinced, badly-designed

> and executed and ultimately do nothing but

> aggravate people trying to live in the city and

> many would argue actually create more pollution

> due to increased traffic congestion.

>

> Your utopian mantra of ditch the car and get on a

> bike is just not practical for the majority of

> people living or going about their business in the

> city and I think the numerous threads on this, and

> other, forum/s shows how much people are not

> supporting these ideals - or at least the

> execution therein.

>

> And I don't think anyone is suggesting demolishing

> anything to make way for new roads (and I would

> suggest London's road system hasn't been expanded

> for decades - it's the same layout it has been for

> a very long time) but to take a balanced approach

> to traffic management to make journey times for

> everyone as quick, convenient and a safe as

> possible whilst at the same time protecting the

> environment as much as possible.

I can understand what you want to achieve here (even if I don't agree with much of it) but your last sentence exposes the entire fallacy of your position - it simply isn't achievable. There have been a couple of things that have made a difference to traffic levels in London in the last 30 years - one penalised drivers and one encouraged cycling. Those two apart the experience of driving in London is that is getting more frustrating, slower and more polluting.