Best snob post of 2009, now with added wriggle

[macroban]

The demographics of ED seem to be changing quite rapidly and better schooling is needed.

I would not be interested in more Academies. I'm interested in approrpiate schooling for middle income professional families.

Academies are provided in the area but I believe their mandate is generally focused on education of deprived areas and that is a specialised form of education. In general ED to me is not a deprived area and needs higher geared schooling.

I would however like however to hear the view of James as to how the secondary schooling is being improved to meet the improving demographics of the area.

[Mick Mac]

thanks for the obvious attempt to show me up but i dont regret the post. Its my opinion. Mick.

[silverfox]

What exactly is it about the post Macroban that has led you to quote it on the LoL thread and here?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

East Dulwich is an oasis of affluence in a desert of effluence that surrounds it...

[????]

Might not be very PC but I agree with MM on this and not sure how aspiration has now been stigmatised as 'snobbism'

[Nero]

I agree with Mick's sympathies. Some kids are academically bright. Some are even gifted. Many are not. Why push square pegs into round holes?

[Mick Mac]

Thanks to those above for their support. Obviously not many people will agree with me unless they are in similar stage in life, and even then I'm not expecting much agreement. But I feel there is a gap in schooling provided in the area.

[candj]

I don't understand why it's construed as snobby to want better education for our children.

Perhaps you haven't heard about the calamity of the school situation in Southward this year....

[Moos]

I think it's snobbish to want better education only for middle-class children.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I fink hall kyds to mix lyke a "social experiment"--( I cut 'n pasted that phrase cos I can't rite propa) but i fink iz realy good that em clevor kyds from Dylwych go to skool in Peckham and playses. lay will sea lyfe as it iz.

They can len keep it real, yougetme?

My teechur said it aint bout xams but learnin to spake to everyone innit.

Innit?

After all if Tony Blair, Harriet Harperson and Diane Abbott can send their kids to the local "Academy" then so can you Guys.:X

p.i.s My Mum rote dat lyne above..

[Jeremy]

I think I probably agree in essence with what Mick is trying to say, but the wording got my back up a bit.

Children from different backgrounds may require different things out of an education. But to say that middle class kids should get a "better" education... perhaps it's just an unfortunate choice of words... but it's just plain wrong.

[candj]

But I don't read Mick Mac's post that way, is he not just asking for more schools in general for the growing general population which happens to be a middle-class population ? I too don't think we need more academies, but we do need another school or two in the area. Call me a snob.

I didn't read the original thread so probably shouldn't comment, but it seems a bit unfair to take it out of context.

[Jeremy]

candj Wrote:

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> is he not just asking for more schools in general for

> the growing general population which happens to be

> a middle-class population ?

Nope.

[candj]

Okay, then he speaks for himself, for his situation. Fair enough. He speaks for me too.

[Keef]

I read it as people with more money need better schooling for this kids because they can afford to live in a "better" area. That is wrong, and I am not being PC in saying that (Quids). It's a very very Tory style elitist thing to say. Unless I've got it all wrong. Just for the record, middle class kids are not born more academic, or brighter. This sort of thing would just widen the gap.

[Mick Mac]

Children from deprived backgrounds and children of wealthy families are well catered for in Dulwich. Middle income families cannot afford private education and Academies, if labour is honest, are geared at deprived areas. There is therefore a gap in schooling provided in Dulwich.

[reggie]

Mick

Do you think that 'deprived background' children need different kinds of schools than middle class families?

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Children from deprived backgrounds and children of

> wealthy families are well catered for in Dulwich.

> Middle income families cannot afford private

> education and Academies, if labour is honest, are

> geared at deprived areas. There is therefore a gap

> in schooling provided in Dulwich.

[Brendan]

Or indeed that children from wealthy families should have a different education to those from normal families or ?deprived? backgrounds?

[Mick Mac]

Reggie

I believe Labour, and many governments before them, have sought to put in place schools aimed at getting the best from deprived areas. There is therefore schooling specific for deprived areas.

[reggie]

Mic mac

I could not tell my 'deprived' neighbour in Dulwich that because of my background..(middle class) that their child should go to a different school than my own kids. What if they wanted to 'aspire' and not go to some crappy academy?

I understand that you want your kids to go to a good school but dont most people??

[Keef]

I just don't understand what you want Mick. The best for your kids is obvious, and understandable, but I don't get why you think there should be different schools for different classes. And what about the really clever kid living in a council estate, should s/he apply for a special place in your middle class school, or just go to the working class school?

Sorry mate, but I am shocked at what you seem to be suggesting.

[Mick Mac]

Keef Wrote:

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> I read it as people with more money need better

> schooling for this kids because they can afford to

> live in a "better" area. That is wrong, and I am

> not being PC in saying that (Quids). It's a very

> very Tory style elitist thing to say. Unless I've

> got it all wrong. Just for the record, middle

> class kids are not born more academic, or

> brighter. This sort of thing would just widen the

> gap.

Keef - I have always voted Labour and never Tory.

I believe in good schooling for all. I believe Academies are a good idea to raise aspirations in deprived areas.

I also believe in the Grammar school system - therefore I don't believe that throwing all children of all abilities in together works in all areas.

I want a school that is right for ED, the people who live in ED and aimed at their childrens abilites.

I don't believe I should have to pay for private education to get that. I don't want to move to Kent, I like ED.

[????]

Like jeremy said, I think Mick's only mistake was in the wording where I think he said 'better demographic'...Am i going to send my kids to one of the academies with their current results and deprivation scores? No. Does this mean they are bad schools, not neccessarily, does that make me a snob, no, but my kids are middle-class kids with middle class parents (there I said it mockney) with 'middle class apirations including giving them the best education possible (within the state system). I don't think the academies are delivering that for a whole bucket of reasons - so the choice for many - who have the luxury of choice - is basically to go private or move out. Some schools which weren't just 'targeted' at inner city deprivation with traditionally poor results, would benefit all in the community, including working class kids Keef, and reflect the changing demography of the southern part of the borough....and I think that is what MM is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong MM). I don't think MM envisages having someone on the gate checking to see if kids coming in drop their aiches or say toilet like wot I do.

One cap fits all eh or you're a snob?

[????]

BTW ask Diane Abbot, Tony Blair and other 'Labour' architects of the Academies where they sent their kids to school.......

[Mick Mac]

Keef Wrote:

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> I just don't understand what you want Mick. The

> best for your kids is obvious, and understandable,

> but I don't get why you think there should be

> different schools for different classes. And what

> about the really clever kid living in a council

> estate, should s/he apply for a special place in

> your middle class school, or just go to the

> working class school?

>

> Sorry mate, but I am shocked at what you seem to

> be suggesting.

That's ok Keef - noones going to fall out over this, I respect your opinion. Maybe I'm not putting mine very well.

I understand this may make me appear snobbish, it obviously does.

Perhaps its better put in terms of I agree with streaming in education. Bright kids are best challenged at more demanding schools. More demanding schools are not the best place for less intelligent pupils as they can fall behind. I don't agree that schools for all abilities work best for all children.

The government caters specifically for deprived areas, but when was the lasttime they built a new secondary for ED that was not an academy (I don't know the answer).

Our primary schools are being forced to take large amounts of extra pupils this year, the problem is going to hit ED secondary education in 5 or so years time. I think this should be planned for now or people will be forced to continue to leave ED, which I think is a shame.