Warning bendy bus crash on Etherow St

[wonderwoman]

This was bound to happen at some stage. Husband was on way out and saw one of the 12 bendy buses crashed into a parked vehicle on etherow street whilst it was trying to turn round the corner. Police already at scene of accident but no one thought of diverting the top of Friern road, Lordship Lane. End result...road block! Don't think anyone was in the car but it's pushed up onto the pavement.

[James Barber]

Any route that has many large buses turning tight corners is bound to result in collisions. Basic probability.

I spent a day at Willesden Bus garage on the bus simulator. Even driving a bus simulator was really hard.

For some time we campaigned for the no.12 bus route to be extended to Forest Hill. We stopped this campaign when Boris was elected with a promise to phase out bendy buses. Latest news on that is they'll all be gone by 2011.

[Sue]

Thank goodness for that.

They're truly horrible.

A vile environment to travel in, and take up too much room at bus stops so you're likely to miss your bus which is parked up somewhere behind.

[man_or_mouse]

I think they are ok for passengers but a daft idea in a city where the streets are so narrow and congested.... and yes only a matter of time before buses turning in small roads damage other vehicles. We should really be using lots of smaller 'hopper' buses on those routes, like some other cities in the world do.

[peckhamboy]

The problem is that the buses that have been commissioned to replace the bendy buses take about 1/3 of the passengers, and have about 1/4 as many seats (or so it appears - I've not actually counted). Which means that at busy periods you could end up waiting longer for a bus even though they're more frequent, and the way most London buses are driven round corners I wouldn't fancy spending too much time standing on one. It's a shame really as I was quite happy for the bendy buses to be phased out, but I don't think they've got the right solution.

[KalamityKel]

For those who may be interested... (click the blue writing)

[Domitianus]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank goodness for that.

>

> They're truly horrible.

>

> A vile environment to travel in, and take up too

> much room at bus stops so you're likely to miss

> your bus which is parked up somewhere behind.

Vile in what way? Their layout is much the same as other buses except longer. I loved the old Routemasters because of the atmosphere but in terms of comfort they were much more "vile" than the bendys.

[Nero]

The bendies are badly ventilated, stink of fuel, have limited seating, get very warm, and are an invatation to fare dodgers. The reason they get so full is that people know they can simply hop on and off, like it were a free shuttle. Normal buses, with Oyster readers at the very front on the driver's seat, will prevent that sort of behaviout. Can't wait till they are gone.

[Brendan]

JBARBER Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Any route that has many large buses turning tight

> corners is bound to result in collisions. Basic

> probability.

> I spent a day at Willesden Bus garage on the bus

> simulator. Even driving a bus simulator was really

> hard.

>

> For some time we campaigned for the no.12 bus

> route to be extended to Forest Hill. We stopped

> this campaign when Boris was elected with a

> promise to phase out bendy buses. Latest news on

> that is they'll all be gone by 2011.

Seriously? What about the issues for the people who live at the top of Friern road and have to put up with a bus stand out the back of their house, bus drivers not turning off their engines all through the night, our cars being constantly hit by busses (the red paint kind of gives it away), the top of Friern Road being regularly blocked by buses and apart from those issues relating to the unsuitably narrow road the often antisocial and rude behaviour of the bus drivers.

Surely you should have known better than to take an election promise by some self serving, tory fop seriously.

[Strawbs]

I personally am a massive fan of the bendy bus.. as someone without a car Ive not experienced the evident upset that drivers get towards the bendy bus (some of my friends hate them) but in terms of being a passenger they can transport loads more people, are super frequent and I think a dream as you can on and off all three doors..

I for one will be sad to see them go.. Totally get that they can be a menace in the city to drivers but the whole point of buses is to stop people needing to drive in to town so on a weekend if we all got the bus / train it wouldnt be an issue..

[man_or_mouse]

It really annoys me when non-driving commuters assume we can all abandon our cars. The fact is that it is cheaper and quicker for me to go to some places in my car - not to mention safer depending on the location and time of day. Oh and then there are the other times when I need my car to transport things for work, or just for my home. Usually when I go into town for leisure I cycle but can think of a ton of reasons why people DO need to drive their car into town. Let's just accept that we need all kinds of transport on our roads to work together and great big huge buses hurtling down narrow residential roads are not the total answer.

[PeckhamRose]

Agree with man_or_mouse! Except in my case it's my motorcycle.

[SeanMacGabhann]

We can't all abandon our cars - but a majority of drivers can. Most of the reasons you highlight are preferences, and not genuine obstacles

Just saying like

And as more and more people take to the roads and petrol starts to run out, cost, convenience and speed will all disappear so any changes you can make in advance can only be beneficial

[man_or_mouse]

Lots of people live nowhere near to a tube or easy connection. Many women do not feel safe late at night on public transport and for good reason nor do they want to walk down poorly lit atreets from the bus stop to their home. At rush hour you'll be lucky to get a seat and lucky if you don't go through a can of deoderant in the tube in summer - and that's just getting to work.

If someone can park at work and it takes them half the time to get there by car and it costs them less than public transport and they arrive feeling and smelling clean and refreshed, then public transport is a poor choice. People will always need cars some of the time and there are plenty of those who have to have a car or van for their work.

It's completely folly to think we can ever have a totally car free world. If the concern is an environmental one then consider this. Most buses run on diesel for a start, nowhere near as clean as petrol. Electric buses are burning fosil fuel elsewhere to create the electricity to charge their batteries and burning just as much fuel to do that as they would have put in their engine. If you use a bus you use a vehicle - that's no different than using a car, or any other vehicle. A bus needs far more petrol to drag it's galvanized hulk along than a car and outside of rush hour most of them are half empty.

Obviously the only solution is the bicycle but I'd never be so daft as suggest we all get on a bike.......try seeing what any bus does when you are a cyclist for a start........

The answer is a properly integrated road/ transport system with correctly phased lights and the right road safety measures and planning for ALL of it's users. Plenty of cities in Europe manage to do it - but we are too busy arguing the toss of 'my transport choice is more righteous than yours' to see the bigger picture as usual.

Now has anyone got a gas guzzler they wanna sell? >:D<

[RosieH]

What Sean said (again)

How much stuff do you need to transport into work and how frequently, that you need to drive into town? I often have to take stuff into work and I can usually do it on the bus. On those very rare occasions that it's too much to carry, I take a taxi. And at ?13.80 for a weekly bus pass, I'm pretty sure that it compares favourably to running a car.

I appreciate that some women don't feel safe walking home from the bus stop. Maybe I'm fortunate in that regard. But I can't think you're really suggesting that women drive to and from their night out and never have a drink?

In London I have NEVER needed to drive a car. Although right now I could do with one for a car boot sale, but I think the return on investment wouldn't really justify the expense. Now having slagged off cars, if any of you gas guzzlers does want to give me a lift to Battersea...

[SeanMacGabhann]

man-mouse - it was you came crashing in with the statement above. I haven't seen, nor am I advocating we ALL abandon our cars. But if you think that's the argument of course you have the hump

If diesel is a less efficient/ecofriendly fuel, it does at least get a lot more people the same distance at a fraction of the fuel cost surely?

I'm not telling you (or even suggesting) what to do - I'm just saying:

The reasons you state are by and large preferences not obstacles

People need to get around - no one is saying abandon all cars or all vehicles - there is no moral equivalence. But there is a practical benefit in moving close to 100 people in a vehicle slightly larger than 2 cars, than there is in moving 2 people in the same space. If we are all in buses and still the streets are clogged, I'll listen to you equate the two again

European don't have the same mind-set as Londoners - they don't take to the roads and say "when we have an integrated system THEN I will use it" etc.. They just use it. You said not everyone lives near a tube station or easy connection. My girlfriend and I lived at the top end of Friern Rd for 8 years - as far from any connection you can get I would say?

You WANT to drive - and that's fine. Just say it. Don't make up reasons. Your descriptions of those of us who do use public transport don't endear you - I arrive at work smelly and unclean do I?

[Jeremy]

I probably make 10 journeys on public transport for every journey I make in my car, so I don't feel at all guilty for owning a car.

For getting into town, the train+tube normally suits me fine, but there are times when the public transport just isn't up to scratch. Apart from the obvious scenarios (heavy loads, large supermarket shops, elderly passengers, etc), public transport can be abysmal on Sundays due to tube and train closures. Trains only come every 30 minutes in the evenings, which is rubbish. And connections throughout south London are inconvenient and infrequent. Buses can involve waiting an unpredictable period of time (sometimes in bad weather), and many of us find the journey very unpleasant.

In short I totally agree with SMG that most of us don't *need* a car (although the "europeans" statement is a generalisation of dubious accuracy) but owning one can be a huge advantage, depending on your habits and lifestyle. And I don't think there's any need to feel guilty about being a motorist in London, providing you use your car sensibly.

[SeanMacGabhann]

erm... yes. guilty on that one. I'll do more homework

[Domitianus]

When I visited Madrid a couple of years ago, ANY journey on the Metro, no matter how long, cost ONE BLEEDING EURO!!! (about 75p at the time, changed since then obviously). Furthermore the Metro was clean, well maintained, brightly lit and seemed very safe.

Why in the name of all that is holy, can the English not manage something even halfway comparable?

[suniil]

I love bendy buses simply for convenience, quick travel time and frequency. But bit scary, while travelling in nights tail ends in particular!

[Alex K]

@Domitianus: Well, erm. Spain is not interested in trying to "punch above its weight", in justifying its "rotten borough" Security Council seat by nestling ever deeper into the USA's breast pocket, in spending money that it doesn't have on Iraq, Afghanistan, Trident.

Once Britain realises that it is Belgium, we might get properly subsidised rail service. And herring at every meal, at least in the northern bits.

[iaineasy]

I hope boris brings back the routemaster to dulwich!!

[beaver14uk]

Having worked at London Bridge last week when the 521 was converted from bendy bus to smaller single decks the majority of people I spoke with hated the bendy bus replacement and thought it was a crazy idea. The cost of replacing them is huge - thankfully living outside of London I won't be picking up the cost - you will be the London tax payer. Good luck.

[Fliss]

Yes beaver14uk, I saw a headline tonight that bus fares in the capital are "set to soar" - shame, because the tube and trains are ridiculously overpriced, and we have to get around somehow! So although you live outside London you may be picking up the price with your increased bus fare, if you are going to be working in town.

[Nero]

I spoke to a very friendly, sane, red AND amber light-respecting bus driver early this morning on the 12, who told me that it was unlikely the bendies will be taken off his route for at least a couple of years. (This driver even stopped for the odd would-be passenger who was running up to his vehicle as others had just got on.)