Book, any thoughts?: Why Love Matters, by Sue Gerhardt

[hanstands]

Just wondering if anyone has read this and what they thought of it with regards to raising babies?? Personally, we don't know quite what we would have done without it, so helped us understand our new arrival alot more than we would have otherwise...would really recommend to expectant parents and people with newborns...anyone with a young baby really.

Its here if anyone's interested:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Love-Matters-Affection-Shapes/dp/1583918175/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251657155&sr=1-1

[Fuschia]

Yes, I have. Is that the book that has the really emotive passage about what goes on in the brain of a baby left to cry?

[Belle]

That's so weird - have just started reading this book and was thinking of posting on the forum about it but given I haven't read much of it yet thought I'd wait! My mum got it for me. So far it's v interesting, though haven't got to the bit you mention Fuschia. Must admit we DO let our boy cry when we put him down often, as it seems he almost has to get stuff out of his system and protest about being put down, before he can sleep. But think that's poss different from leaving to cry when clearly in distress/needing something. Apols, off topic...

Will post again once I've finished it!

[Fuschia]

Belle Wrote: Must admit we DO let our boy

> cry when we put him down often, as it seems he

> almost has to get stuff out of his system and

> protest about being put down, before he can sleep.

> But think that's poss different from leaving to

> cry when clearly in distress/needing something.

>

Yes, some babies need to left to grumble a little esp when they're over-tired... but the cortisol levels rise in a baby that is left to "cry it out"

[Bishberro]

Just had a look at the reviews on Amazon and it sounds interesting. But if I read it, is it going to make me feel really guilty for leaving my child while I go to work and tell me that because of this, he's going to turn to crime in later life?

[Fuschia]

Bishberro Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just had a look at the reviews on Amazon and it

> sounds interesting. But if I read it, is it going

> to make me feel really guilty for leaving my child

> while I go to work and tell me that because of

> this, he's going to turn to crime in later life?

I don't remember that! I think there are a few parenting books around that emphasise the need for a consistent caregiver in a child's first years...which is one reason why I prefer a childminder/nanny to a nursery for a baby... but I don't remember reading anything that has made me feel bad about working (just as well, as otherwise we'd be living in a shed!)

[toast]

This is such a tricky one. I eventually let both my boys 'cry it out', mostly because every 2h wake ups were not helping anyone. The older one was 9 months and it felt ok, when he cryed he got a bit angry but not for long. The younger one was only 6 months and i do regret it, he sounded sad, and although i did go to him but not pick up i still feel it was a bit mean and if i could go back i would have given it a few more months.

When we made our decisions we based it on weighing up the temporary distress to them vs them getting more sleep, having parents who were not just zombies and them learning how to get themselves to sleep, a skill which would help them for life.

I know of the book and have not read it (might read it now), does Sue Gerhardt consider the damage to the nervous system of crying it out v the damage to the nervous system due to stressed parents, lack of sleep etc?

[Fuschia]

It might be that book, might be others I've read, there has been research into the effects of excessive cortisol on the developing brain, how it affects the receptors and causes anxiety etc as an adult. I'm sure being neglected, or having very tired, stressed angry parents has an effect just as being left to cry does, yes. We just have to do the best we can, I guess.

But I'm very wary of the industry of "experts" - TV, magazines, books, all saying there is a quick fix, for what is basically normal baby behaviour.

[helena handbasket]

It's funny how it swings to the extremes...... close the door and walk away or no crying. After nine months of desperate exhaustion I used a combo of pick-up put down and controlled crying, although with the crying I did three minute intervals. It's not long enough for them to become "insecure and lose their trust in you" as some critics suggest. The repetition can drive you bonkers but it worked.

My parents were children of the seventies and didn't let me cry. Instead, they let me lead and consequently I was a terrible sleeper. I never did learn to sleep properly, all throughout school and into adulthood, and I suspect it is at least in part due to the lack of structure in my own early childhood routines. Before my son was born I swore that if I could do one thing for him it would be to give him the gift of sleep! So every time we have a sleep issue I picture him as a seven year old who doesn't get enough sleep, dragging himself through the day. I have spent my whole life wishing my parents had read a few books, got some advice, and just showed me who was the boss!

My most cringe-worthy moments in parenting always happened around 4 a:m (after five hours of constant up and down..... I was certain he could hear my head land on the pillow)) when I hit the wall of coping abilities. I swear that's why he throws toys when he's mad. I came to terms with the fact that a bit of crying had to be better than a mother who turned into a raging lunatic every night. We are not built to survive on three hours of sleep every night for nine months.

[hanstands]

The book is less about telling you a philosophy, its more factual and scientific - I don't think its a book telling one extreme way of how to get a baby to sleep either - more describing how a babies brain develops...and so much more than that, not much about sleep really...on the note of sleep training though as its been raised, my parents we're from the seventies and apparently I slept through from 5 weeks old and have since been a terrible sleeper from as young as I can remember. Similarly, like Helena Handbasket, am desperate to help my baby grow into a good sleeper [but don't really know how]...as my sleep-life has proven, getting your baby to sleep through early on does not guarantee a good child or adult sleeper.

[Fuschia]

I was very prem and when I came home from hospital my mum was told to put me on 4h feeds, apparently I cried so much she had to put my pram down the garden...despite all this, I did eventually sleep Ok (and still do)

Son no 1 was a bad sleeper for quite a while (liked to wake for a bit of breastmilk every few hours) but since the age of about 2 1/2 he has slept brilliantly, you can carry him from yoom to room, or have the burglar alarm go off, and he doesn't stir.

[SteveT]

helena handbasket wrote:-

So every time we have a sleep issue I picture him as a seven year old who doesn't get enough sleep, dragging himself through the day. I have spent my whole life wishing my parents had read a few books, got some advice, and just showed me who was the boss.

Some people are light fitful sleepers, some like me just die for eight hours, and no amount of book learning changes that. If your parents are light fitful sleepers and you are then the chances are your baby will be, and I can see no advantage in beating yourself up about it, take a step back and accept this is how it is until he is big enough to wear himself out, then he will sleep.

[helena handbasket]

My parents are not light fitful sleepers, and neither is my son. Out of desperation I worked out a strategy (from books) and really stuck to it, and eventually he became a fabulous sleeper. Took a lot of work and time, but it was like night and day. And so was the change in my poor tired baby's disposition. And mine! Why on earth would you just accept something that is making you miserable without at least making an effort to learn more about it and see what you can to do make it easier? Besides that is the whole spirit of the "family discussion" room.

Two years later, I dread to think where we'd be if I just let it run it's course...... I'd probably be dead by now from exhaustion. And he would be called a "light and fitful sleeper".

No, thanks.

[snowboarder]

Moving on from sleep (although still very bad here)..

I have this book on order..along with the 'no cry sleep solution'...(currently we have the no sleep cry solution going on)

BUT - question - I hate letting baby snowboarder cry in his cot - he gets so upset and it's clearly not going to do any good - so I rescue him (frowns from my mother - rod for back etc.) - but he cries in the pram, in the car seat (long and hard) and in these situations I CAN'T pick him up...so does this affect cortisol/stress levels too? Suppose so....

Oh what to do?! Though he was chilling out some but not this week! I'll read the book when I get it and maybe can answer my own question!

[Fuschia]

snowboarder Wrote:>

but he cries

> in the pram, in the car seat (long and hard) and

> in these situations I CAN'T pick him up...so does

> this affect cortisol/stress levels too? Suppose

> so....

I guess it does, but we have to be realistic. If you wear your baby in a sling and don't use a pram, and don't travel by car, chances are your baby won't cry very much. But that's not practical for many of us... so we just do the best we can.

And if a family feel that they will only maintain their sanity via controlled crying, then I guess that's a better option than having a nervous breakdown or battering the baby!

But I have a bad feeling about the childcare guru industry and the way you can buy magazines that say "Sleep through in 5 easy steps as if a baby is a diet plan!

Another good book is Sears Nightime parenting. Lots of info about human sleep.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/t070800.asp (about night weaning)

[Fuschia]

Read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=ORRBRwcMbOgC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=sears+sleep+pattern+REM&source=bl&ots=8SAJlccAtr&sig=FNAc-dMgnysKcjGUPsHqKDQj80c&hl=en&ei=xHufSq3kMJPd-Qag99XlDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Belle]

also, li ke Snowboarder I have a baby who doesn't always respond to traditional methods of soothing (ie driving, pushing in pram) and that includes the sling - so really some babies just will cry whatever you do at times, I think. Though am loving the dummy solution!

[helena handbasket]

Dr Sears doesn't work for non-traditional babies. Nothing in his "bag of tricks" worked for us, and believe me, I studied his books like a bloody scholar before I realized that they just don't factor in personality. The message was that if you didn't breastfeed, co-sleep and "wear" your baby you would end up with a fat, dumb, sickly child and you would have no one to blame but yourself. Not exactly the encouragement a new mom needs when these things don't work (my god did my son hate the sling!)

It's all good philosophy, I bought into it completely before they handed me my "one of a kind" son. Probably worth a read, but I found that the Baby Whisperer gives great advice about non-textbook babies. I know I bang on about it but she honestly saved my life. The hardest thing about having such intense babies is that so few people have them that you just can't articulate how very hard it can be. The worst advice I would get was "um, don't babies cry? Don't babies get up in the night?" Well yes, yes they do. Again, it's more about the intensity of it.

[Fuschia]

My first son was very high need.... and never ever ever napped for more than an hour after the first few weeks! So I understand your pain, Helena. Can't say I ever followed any particular philosophy, just what worked for us (which was cosleeping, but not slings) Leaving him to cry was never an option for me though. And in the end, the first couple of years went by in a flash and sleep was no longer an issue. Now he's just a barmy 6 year old. Roll on school term starting!!

[helena handbasket]

Know what you mean about leaving themto cry. Like I said, I did three minutes at a time because that was all I could take. Does the book say anything about the damage done to a mother's brain from prolonged crying? :)

[helena handbasket]

Should mention, as I am always talking about the difficulties of my son and what a misery the first year was, my son has always had the most delicious personality and a laugh to die for. So, in spite of his "tenacity" and the fact that he has kicked my **s every day of his life, he has also been the sweetest, most wonderful little boy and gets better every day. Which is probably what kept him alive some days!

The lovely part about intense babies is that they laugh and love as intensely as they cry and fuss!

[snowboarder]

Yep I'm starting to think this with my baby. There's lots of lovely giggling. Especially when out (flirting!). There's also a lot of RAGE. Hoping for general improvement as time goes on! I think just accepting that some things are personality related rather than there actually being anything wrong actually starts to make things easier. I'm only just getting to this stage!

[hanstands]

Lol Helena, no I don't think book does mention damage to Mums brain from prolonged crying - perhaps a niche in the market there, anyone, anyone???!!;-)

On the subject of crying and intense babies - I think for us with our, I think maybe quite high maintenance baby, what worked was just constant experimentation and aching stretching of our creativity and research until something seemed to slot into place and work for baby and us and it always seemed be a different thing to the next Mum and baby etc etc. For example the sling [or rather collection of - it can be addictive] was a godsend whereas 'The Baby Whisperer' a bad mistake gone wrong - many tears due to experiments with this book - the opposite to Helena's baby but all worked for different babies because of individual parents' research and alot of time, effort and self sacrifice to find a way to help their particular baby. Its hard work but worth it and more fulfilling in the end knowing you really have done absolutely everything you could have [within reason].

One simple sounding response we have if our baby is going through a particularly cryey, clingy phase is to go with that and stuff the housework, social life, put my life on momentary pause and hold him, sit with him on my knee, read books with him holding him close all day if that's what keeps him calm. Snowboarder, our baby also has never been able to go in a carseat without much crying so we now give up alot of car journeys and go by train and bus instead for the sake of calm and less stress for all. [Maybe sounds alot to do but in my view Mothering a baby is such a fleeting phase of life its worth it]. The more I do this the quicker he gets over it and seems secure again. The more I resisted his clingyness the more clingy he became. Sounds obvious but I was nervous to do it like this at first as I thought I'd spoil him and that he'd be more clingy. For us, so far at least he has become more and more independent and confident...

But anyway the book is a must read for all new parents at least - In my experience it has been one of the most hopeful, inspiring, down to earth, non idealistic, practical, EXCITING parenting books I've read. But, that might just be me.