Barry Road - Speeding

[first mate]

Beulah,

Let's not get into an us and them. There are a lot of aggressive drivers (and buses) and whatever the cause clearly cyclists are not immune from the "it's all about me and my need to get from a-b just as fast as I can" mindset.

Thus far, it seems to me that efforts to supposedly fix the problem are backfiring massively by heaping on pressure all round. As RCH and others have suggested, we need an overview of traffic in the area, proper consultation and useful solutions.

Current "solutions" seem more driven by somewhat idealistic political agendas rather than what is practical and works for most road users and pedestrians.

[standswithfist]

i get the bus to Peckham Station on Barry Road and am amazed at speeding cars! i sometimes have my two babies with me and its one road i hate crossing!! Even with the crossing the cars are speeding to a halt. If you need support I'm willing to help.

[rch]

ruffers, it's still worth trying to flag community concerns as sometimes it can lead to other solutions which aren't immediately obvious.

Reading the comments here about buses is interesting, as I went through exactly the same bus issues on Half Moon Lane and East Dulwich Grove when I was a Village cllr.

So, it might be useful for James to phone TfL and flag the observed bus speeding issues and see if TfL will at least flag the concerns to the drivers in the first instance.

It's possible that the buses have speed monitoring devices fitted, but they would probably be set to the default 30mph limit and not the 20mph limit, so an internal device won't show speeding.

But if TfL are aware of the issues then they may be convinced to pay for something like a 20mph smiley face monitor, as I think they did on Herne Hill because of the same reported concerns.

Bear in mind that we actually managed to get funding for highway alterations to address concerns on East Dulwich Grove, but this is a double-edged sword as it lead to the raised table around the corner of EDG and Thorncombe where residents are now complaining that the sound and vibrations of the larger vehicles hitting the table are now keeping them awake at night without actually calming the speeds.

In the meantime, if you get a measurement over 35mph on a bus, try to get the bus asset number which should be on the back along with the time and date, so this can be used as proof to TfL, who will be able to check the logs to verify that the alleged bus was indeed travelling along Barry Road at the time.

[treehugger]

There are two speed monitors (smiley face things) outside no 19 Barry road and neither of them have worked for years...

[rch]

treehugger, this is amazing information... I vaguely seem to remember that the technology changed (I think we lost the one on EDG around the same time), but if the units are still there then we may be able to put pressure on TfL to renew them (as it's a bus route) and agree to pay the electricity, which would be a good result in the short term. I'll go have a look...

Jaaaaaaaaaames! Can you look into this from your end? The council will probably say that the units are defunct, etc, but if the power connections technically still exist, then that's half the battle.

This might also be a good CGS bid in tandem with TfL negotiations...

[James Barber]

Hi treehuger,

I've tried several times to either get those devices fixed or removed and the ones at the other end of Barry Road.

The Street Design Manual doesn't allow the deployment of such devices on our streets. Once of the dafter decisions the council made in 2012.

I will endeavour to get them removed again - the council will not replace them or allow CGS funds (I've tried this approach) to replace them with working ones.

[rch]

Definitely daft!

Can you ask why the one is allowed on the Southwark side of Herne Hill, in case we can use that one as a precedent? My understanding was that Southwark doesn't want to pay for the electricity, but maybe they'll allow it if we can get TfL to pay and install it?

[James Barber]

Hi rch,

It won't be electricity as Southwark has tens of thousands of street laps and several thousand illuminated highway signs.

[somehannahb]

Hi all, Just saw this thread. We are Barry Road residents and would be happy to help if we can. We too have small children and find the buses hammering down Barry Road quite frightening when getting them in and out of car.

The cars overtaking buses are even worse. Our Ford Transit campervan that was parked outside our house was written off in November last year when a Ford Fiesta spun out of control after trying to overtake a bus. It must have been going at quite a lick to push a 3 tonne van up onto the pavement. In fact I'm pretty sure the police did the driver for speeding - they should have the records. Fortunately no-one was hurt in the incident but they easily could have been.

[TheArtfulDogger]

somehannahb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi all, Just saw this thread. We are Barry Road

> residents and would be happy to help if we can. We

> too have small children and find the buses

> hammering down Barry Road quite frightening when

> getting them in and out of car.

>

I assume that as responsible parents you are getting the children out of the car on the pavement side only which has confused me concerning why buses driving at 30 on Barry Road is frightening.

I do agree that Barry Road tempts people to drive fast and an ex girlfriend 20 years ago confessed to reaching over 70 coming along it late one night

Personally I think the 20 mph blanket speed limit won't work in the end and will sadly cause more problems then it is supposed to solve.

[rch]

Hi, somehannahb... can you PM me with your email address so that I can add you to the cc list?

Someone else has PMd me as well, so I think we're up to 8-10 people now, which is enough to try to set up a monitoring session...

It would also be good to have a discussion about where the best place is to monitor from (i.e., the most speeding) and also what time of the day and which day of the week would be best.

If anyone else wants to join in, then also PM me your email address. Sheff I'm hoping that you'll volunteer to coordinate all the residents!

I won't post the date and the time of any agreed session, as we don't want to tip off any potential speeders...!

[emilydina]

Firstly I would like to apologise as I know many will not respect my opinion on this thread but still think it needs to be said. I am a mother to a young child also and to all the parents say they are terrified by cars and busses doing anything over 20mph is silly. Teach your child to hold your hand or to scoot by your side on the side of the pavement away from the road it really is not difficult. Cars are dangerous and they do travel at a speed so teach your children road safety. Secondly to everyone complaining about the busses. The core issue here is that go ahead set their drivers time cards that need them to be be at a certain buss top at a certain time which is often vwry un realistic timing if you acount for traffic in peckham and now a 20mph road. So in order for them to remain on time they are having to make up time constantly.I would also like to mention that a 12 driver has lost his job over people who have nothing better to do than to report a bus gking a ltitle too fast. A driver who is a person with a family and who has bills to pay. So people please think of the bigger picture and stop moaning about 10mph.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Emilydina

Thank you for saying that, I may not be popular either after posing this but I agree entirely with you, people need to take responsibility for safe guarding themselves and their family. Roads are dangerous places I agree but that's why we have pavements to separate pedestrians from vehicles. Granted crossing the road brings pedestrians on to the road but that's why the Green Cross Code was invented (bring back Tuffty and the green cross code man)

It takes both pedestrians taking care when crossing the road or when getting out of cars and for drivers to be aware of the danger they present to pedestrians.

I wasn't aware of a bus driver loosing his job and I feel sorry for his family, and sadly if this happens again we will start to see a decline in drivers hence the potential for less buses resulting in more cars on the road (a vicious circle)

Again, Emilydina, a well presented voice of reason.

(Time to hide under my kennel from the howling mob)

[emilydina]

Thank you TheArtfulDogger, it is nice to know I am not alone in my opinion.

[rodneybewes]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Emilydina

>

> Thank you for saying that, I may not be popular

> either after posing this but I agree entirely with

> you, people need to take responsibility for safe

> guarding themselves and their family. Roads are

> dangerous places I agree but that's why we have

> pavements to separate pedestrians from vehicles.

> Granted crossing the road brings pedestrians on to

> the road but that's why the Green Cross Code was

> invented (bring back Tuffty and the green cross

> code man)

>

> It takes both pedestrians taking care when

> crossing the road or when getting out of cars and

> for drivers to be aware of the danger they present

> to pedestrians.

>

> I wasn't aware of a bus driver loosing his job and

> I feel sorry for his family, and sadly if this

> happens again we will start to see a decline in

> drivers hence the potential for less buses

> resulting in more cars on the road (a vicious

> circle)

>

> Again, Emilydina, a well presented voice of

> reason.

>

> (Time to hide under my kennel from the howling

> mob)

There might a decline in drivers you say... interesting... On a brighter note, it might actually encourage people to obey the speed limit. Just imagine such a thing! You're right thought, it's too much to ask...

[Chirpie]

That someone has lost his job is sad however, we are talking speeds of 36 mph not something marginally over 20mph. This would be unacceptable if the limit was 30 let alone 20. Buses are one issue- I guess I personally expect them to keep to (or close to) the limit as they are a public service- but there is a broader issue of speeding generally on Barry Road and again- we are talking speeds well in excess of the new and old limits.

[intexasatthe moment]

That's a very fair and reasonable post emilydina .

Particularly this

" core issue here is that go ahead set their drivers time cards that need them to be be at a certain buss top at a certain time which is often vwry un realistic timing if you acount for traffic in peckham and now a 20mph road. So in order for them to remain on time they are having to make up time constantly"

The 12's terminate at the top of Barry Rd so perhaps they feel compelled to complete this last straight stretch quickly to meet an imposed target .

TBH I'm not so worried about the buses speeding ( if that's what they do ) on Barry Rd .They're big and mainly red and very noticeable .I find cars and motorbikes more of a threat as they seem to come out of the blue .I've volunteered to be part of a project to record speeds on Barry Rd - more because I'm curious to know the facts than because I'm convinced it's a real issue .

[Penguin68]

(a) The purpose of the 20mph was to mitigate and reduce the impact damage caused by vehicles in an accident. The momentum of a bus is a great deal more than that of a motor-bike, so the concomitant damage, if there is an accident, will be much worse.

(b) Individuals make road entry/ road crossing decisions based on anticipated speed and distance. It is very difficult to accurately estimate speeds of vehicles heading towards you - so you make assumptions about distance and permitted road speeds. A bus travelling (at 36mph) almost twice the anticipated (legal) speed of a road gives you far less time to cross or enter the road. It's not a matter of just seeing it (because it's big) but also of judging when it's going to hit you. Which is a lot sooner than you might anticipate if it's going close to twice the legal speed for the road.

[BJL]

@somehannahb I also had a parked vehicle written off on Barry Road (near the Underhill Road junction) when a speeding overtaking driver lost control during broad daylight. Two other parked cars were badly damaged too but the driver was just cautioned by the police.

[intexasatthe moment]

Good points penguin . Not thought of it that way, though sounds obvious now you've said it !

[wulfhound]

While there's no doubt bus drivers are put under unreasonable pressure by their management, 36 in a 20 while working & responsible for members of the public is a gross breach of health & safety at work.

Were an employee to breach H&S in that fashion, in a scenario that had nothing to do with the road, would people be quite so forgiving?

The railways, for example, have a zero tolerance policy for H&S breaches. Clearly you won't get quite the same enviable safety record that the closed, tightly regulated Tube environment has with buses operating on the open road, but expecting employees to stick to the law and the Highway Code ought to be a bare minimum. (And of course, managing them & setting their targets in a way that makes this realistic - it's too easy for bus companies to fire drivers caught speeding without asking awkward questions about why they were doing it in the first place).

Why is it that roads are seemingly exempt from the H&S standards applied to pretty much every other public place, workplace and transport service?

[henryb]

This sounded interesting.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/june/london-buses-to-trial-speed-safety-technology

[Charles Notice]

emilydina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Firstly I would like to apologise as I know many

> will not respect my opinion on this thread but

> still think it needs to be said. I am a mother to

> a young child also and to all the parents say they

> are terrified by cars and busses doing anything

> over 20mph is silly. Teach your child to hold your

> hand or to scoot by your side on the side of the

> pavement away from the road it really is not

> difficult. Cars are dangerous and they do travel

> at a speed so teach your children road safety.

> Secondly to everyone complaining about the busses.

> The core issue here is that go ahead set their

> drivers time cards that need them to be be at a

> certain buss top at a certain time which is often

> vwry un realistic timing if you acount for traffic

> in peckham and now a 20mph road. So in order for

> them to remain on time they are having to make up

> time constantly.I would also like to mention that

> a 12 driver has lost his job over people who have

> nothing better to do than to report a bus gking a

> ltitle too fast. A driver who is a person with a

> family and who has bills to pay. So people please

> think of the bigger picture and stop moaning about

> 10mph.

How did people know the exact speed. Did they have an official radar device? Or was it the normal ED thing where unless it is stationary it is going to fast.

Thought you comment very sensible. Common sense is needed

[davidk]

Of course roads can be and often are dangerous places. But the point of 20mph and other threads like this is that some roads are far more dangerous than they need to or should be. Barry Rd is a classic example.

I have zero sympathy for someone choosing to drive a bus at 36mph in a 20 zone (if that is what happened). That is criminal negligence.

[spider69]

That was why pavements were invented.

If people used their brains and applied common sense which is sadly lacking there would be no problem.