Bojangles (Upland Road) to be kicked out of premises in two weeks time!

[Smiler]

For anyone with children at Bojangles (0208 6032076) at the New Life Assembly Church (0208 6936398), there is a notice on the nursery door saying that they are booting out Bojangles from the premises in two weeks time!

Apparently the company went into administration recently, though they did not tell parents this!

The staff said to my husband that Southwark Council are looking for new premises in Peckham or Nunhead.

[Elfy]

I just spoke to one of the Directors. She said that the company had not gone out of business. They had restructured and liquidated one of their companies. Their landlord (the pastor at the church) has given them 2 weeks' notice to leave the premises (not sure what the story is here). They are looking for an alternative site.

[Smiler]

No, Elfy, they are not being up-front.

The Companies House website details "Bojangles Nursery School Limited" (company number 03637045) as being in liquidation. They are in a Voluntary Creditors Liquidation. The administrator is Mirza Hasan Imam, Curzon House, 64 Clifton Street, London EC2A 4HB. It was wound up and the administrator appointed 22 June 2009.

The new company is called FingerPrints (Dulwich) Limited (company number 06887467). It was incorporated an April and the Director is Sonia Adams. Details are on the companies house website: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/d7a324b3db4cdc2c9a5459df38ad9501/wcprodorder?ft=1 I have ordered additional information from that website.

The new company, Fingerprints, is NOT registered with Ofsted. All registered childcare providers are listed on the Ofsted website: Bojangles Limited is there (but no longer exists), but not Fingerprints.

Ofsted have advised that all new companies providing childcare - including those previously providing care under another organisation - are legally required to register with Ofsted. This can take up to 25 weeks while Ofsted does checks. Ofsted registration does not just carry over to the new company.

The Ofsted number that the management are quoting (107432) is the number for Bojangles as was, not Fingerprints. Fingerprints is not registered. Ofsted will be investigating.

This is very worrying.

[macroban]

In these circumstances Ofsted can issue a temporary license pending a registration.

[Elfy]

Mmm, I thought there might be more to it. Thanks for the info, Smiler. If you find out anything else, please let me know...either by PM or on the forum.

I'm not sure what to do now. Do I cancel my standing order which is due to come out next week? (Payment in advance for September). Even if they were registered with Ofsted, it will be hard for them to find new premises for a nursery that size in less than 2 weeks.

[Smiler]

Elfy,

If you send me a private message with your email address I will add you to the parents' email list (am just using the list of parents from the Dulwich branch that the parents reps normally used) and forward you our emails about what we have found out so far. We are seeking a meeting with the directors of the company.

We don't have any contact details for parents using the Forest Hill branch at this stage.

Really hope it can be sorted out. The premises would need to be suitable, safe, well-located etc. It is a tall order.

The latest position re Ofsted registration is that they are OK for now, unless Ofsted decide otherwise upon investigation. Obviously things like going into administration and changing premises will need to be looked into.

Another issue is deposits, since these were made to the company that went into liquidation.

[Mellors]

I would assume that if they are being kicked out of the premises (or in technical terms, the Landlord is taking re-entry) they must not have been paying their rent, although entering into a voluntary creditor's liquidation would normally be enough to put them in breach of the terms of their lease anyway. They would have known this.

[Smiler]

Thanks Mellors. A lot has obviously been going on, it is a shame.

[Mellors]

It really is - its only a few doors down from me, and I passed all the amazed parents dropping off their poor kids when I was setting off for work this morning :(

[180176]

Hi

Spoke with the manager at Bojangles today (Cynthia). She said that Winsom and Sonia (the owners) did liquidate Bojangles but 're-launched' under another name, she also said that they were not in any rent arrears and that the church approach to this had been quite personal and unpleasant. I questioned the 're-launch' as even I know that something is clearly amiss there but she couldn't give me further info.

I then called the helpline number on the notice outside the nursery, this goes through to one of the premises trustees (the ones who are evicting Bojangles). She said that the owners had been very underhand, liquidating and getting government support for doing so, while then continuing to operate under another name - she said impact on things like insurance is serious. She also said that they don't want to see the kids all suddenly without a nursery where they are v happy and are arranging a meeting tomorrow evening to try and resolve. I asked why their tactics today seemed so hostile but she said when they tried to discuss with owners they 'withdrew from discussions'.

Not too sure what to think - certainly seems Bojangles/FingerPrints owners haven't been completely above-board, but hopefully a parents meeting tomorrow will help alot.

[Mellors]

If they only wanted to change the name they would easily have done this without liquidating the company.

Its a standard lease term that if the tenant enters into liquidation the Landlord can forfeit the lease, and are quite within their rights to do so. They are right that it has probably invalidated their insurance as well (which a big concern given the type of business). If the tenants have "withdrawn from discussions" then the Landlords needed to put up the Notice (distressing though it is).

I can't believe this is about a name change/re-launch....they should have come to me for legal advice :S

[Jessie]

Does anyone know what time the parents meeting is tomorrow?

[Smiler]

Jessie,

Hopefully there will be info about a meeting when we collect the kids today - may be hard to be taken seriously with a hungry toddler clinging like a monkey!

As Mellors said, this is not just a change of name.

It would also be helpful for parents to meet the church people from whom the premises are leased, or indeed for them to be at the meeting tomorrow.

Mellors - any tips on the role of the administrator? Would it be worth speaking to them? Also, when companies go into liquidation, don't they have any legal responsibility to inform customers? It seems wrong if they don't.

[180176]

The church trustee said to me today that they were organising a meeting with parents themselves, for tomorrow evening. I gave them my email on that basis but haven't heard anything so far. If anyone gets details when picking up tonight, please send them to me (PM or public) as my daughter not in nursery today xx

[katgod]

this is the maessage from the Church. Came through mid afternoon. Nothing yet from nursery management.

Dear Parents,

On behalf of the Trustee I would like to say how much we regret having to post

that notice to you this morning. It was a drastic but very important (legal) step

that we were instructed to take, if there was another and more gentler way, we

would have taken it. We are also aware of the shock,stress and other emotions

that must have touched you as you read the notice.

We are concerned about the welfare and wellbeing of the children and have

researched all avenues of how to rescue the situation, we have contacted and continue to seek advise from the appropriate government, insurance, charity and legal authorities.

Having spoken to some of the parents we are getting an understanding of

what the parents wish to happen. The best interest of the children is at

the centre of our motivation. There is a way to proceed with out any further

hurt or discomfort, but it will need the full cooperation of everyone involved.

Therefore we are calling a meeting on this Thursday evening at 6.30 pm at

New Life Assembly Church, Upland Road East Dulwich, SE22 0DA and

are inviting you all to come along, this will give you the opportunity to express

your thoughts, ask questions and enable us to explain why we had to draw your attention to the situation in the way we did. We would also share with you the

possible solution that could be comparable to all concern.

To get an idea of numbers attending please respond by e-mail, also if I have missed

any parent from this e-mail please inform them of the meeting.

Kind Regards

Marie St-Hilaire

on behalf of The New Life Assembly Trustees

[Elfy]

Hi Katgod

I have had an email from the nursery. If you PM me, I'll send it through to you. I don't want to post it here as it might just stoke the flames.

[Smiler]

Have had a number of private messages about this from parents of children already at the nursery and who have paid a deposit to secure a future place. If any parents want to be copied in, please include your email addresses in your PM, not really feasible to keep in touch via PMs on this forum.

Will, however, update this from time to time.

Contact details for various people are here in case any of you want to raise the matter and see what they can do.

East Dulwich (Lib Dem) Councillors:

http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgFindCouncillor.aspx?XXR=0&AC=WARD&WID=12849

Tessa Jowell MP: http://www.tessajowell.net/contact_me

Fiona Phillips of Children's Services, Southwark Council

Children's services

Tel: 020 7525 5000

[email protected]; [email protected]

John Smith House

144-152 Walworth Road

London

SE17 1JL

[Smiler]

Just wanted to add that the situation is equally awful for the employees of the nursery, who don't deserve this. It is really sad to think of them not looking after the children or having problems themselves because of this terrible situation. They are so caring, warm and dedicated.

[Smiler]

An update. As of 30 August, more than 60 children could be without childcare.

No meeting has yet been set up with the directors of Fingerprints (trading as Bojangles), we are pressing for this. They report that they are seeking new premises. They have written to parents: PM me if anyone wants information on this.

As you can see from katgod's message above, the church have invited parents to a meeting this evening at 6.30pm. They seemingly plan for another nursery to operate from the space.

No news from Southwark Council.

[180176]

Hi All

As a parent with 2 children at Bojangles I will also be attending the New Life Assembly meeting this evening and the FingerPrints one when scheduled; I'm in complete agreement that neither side have conducted themselves well and I feel as angry and let down as anyone else. However, I think it's v important that both meetings are, above all, constructive, which means trying to ensure the emotive side of this doesn't override our priority - finding out what is going to happen, the options available and forging a better relationship with the parties involved to ensure this kind of communication disaster doesn't happen in the future.

I'm not suggesting any of us are about to stand up and start shouting the odds but I recently attended a council-run meeting on a community matter and it was a farce because everyone just stood up and got angry, got personal and got nowhere!

At the end of the two meetings we need to be in a position to decide a) if we should 'stick' with Bojangles, b) if the NLA Church have an alternative worth considering, c) if we should start looking for new childcare, and the best chance of extracting the right info to make that decision means keeping ill feelings and high emotions out of it as much as is possible. I know, I know, if you can't get emotional about your kids, what can you get emotional about?? But some emails I have received from other parents suggest that feelings are clearly starting to run very high and we need to keep in mind what is important and what we actually need to get out of these meetings other than just giving the rather heavy handed church approach and the slightly underhanded FingerPrints approach a bl00dy good rollocking!!

xx

[Smiler]

Update from Southwark Council.

They are investigating the situation with both Bojangles/Fingerprints and the church and seeking to establish the details of both parties' proposals.

They won't be sending anyone to the meeting tonight, but have asked for an update tomorrow.

They are also considering what they can do to support parents in identifying immediate and longer-term childcare solutions.

The Council has not thus far been informed by the church of any plans for a new nursery to take the place of Bojangles on the church premises (and would expect to be informed should the church wish to proceed).

[Smiler]

Among the things that it'd be good to establish this evening are:

- when and why the church decided to terminate the nursery's lease; and why with only two weeks' notice;

- when and why they became concerned about their contract with Bojangles; and why they did not inform parents earlier about these matters;

- their detailed proposals about childcare from their premises, including what stage these are at, the nature of the provision, the organisation running it, the stage they have reached with the Council and Ofsted and staffing matters;

[Dodo1]

Hi,

Sorry to read this as our children had a very happy time there. What happened to the new place in Forest Hill that Bojangles also ran and owned?

[Smiler]

As far as we know, the Forest Hill site (1a Church Rise, SE23 2UD) is still open: we would like to alert parents of children at that nursery, as there are risks for them too, but don't have any means of contacting them at present other than this forum.

It isn't clear whether, following the liquidation of Bojangles in June, the new "Fingerprints" company took over both nurseries or whether a third company was set up. Nor is it clear what, if anything, parents have been told (if the communication with us is any indication, it may well be nothing).

Nor indeed do we know whether Bojangles / Fingerprints ran/run any other nurseries.

[MightyMouse]

My daughter is due to start at Bojangles in a few weeks time, having been on their waiting list for a year. I've been in touch with the liquidation administrators today (tel 7183 9501, contact Mirza Hasan/Ray Nixon) who are emailing me a report on how/why Bojangles went into liquidation, and a form to register a claim for our deposit - although I was told it was highly unlikely we would get anything either from the liquidation, or from the new company Fingerprints. I can forward these to the parents network email once I'm added.

Looking online last night, having gone into Voluntary Creditors Liquidation means that the company does not expect to pay any of their creditors. That being so, how can we trust Bojangles/Fingerprints to run another nursery in a new facility? The liquidation began in June so why didn't they tell anyone about it, particularly if, as they seem to be suggesting, that it's simply a change of name? I was also told very recently, that the waiting list at Bojangles is now over a year long - how can a company with this situation go into liquidation (unless that was a lie)? It seems very fishy. I am very interested to meet the owners of Bojangles/Fingerprint to hear what they have to say . . it would take a great deal for them to reassure me to continue with them. I too feel very sorry for the staff who seem equally as out of the loop as we are.

Thanks very much for all the postings and information so far.