primary and secondary schools in dulwich and ED

[Townleygreen]

James "Getting in to Alleyn's has a lot to do with having the right connections"

Evidence?

It certainly doesn't as the Head is very conscious that he has to be totally fair in how he offers the places. It is based on the same criteria as other, similar schools (including Colfe's and St D's). Entrance exam, previous school report and interview. Believe me, there has to be no room for favouritism of any sort.

Many Alleyns parents scrimp and save to pay the fees too, for goodness sake! I certainly had to!! Your comments James are getting more and more clueless.

All you give us is a load of unsupported codswallop - as anyone who actually reads your posts can self evidently see.

Please stop displaying your crazy prejudices and try giving us some EVIDENCE, dear chap. :)-D

[EDmummy]

Gee, over ?13k a year before you buy uniforms, sporting equipment, pay for school trips. Even with scrimping and saving a vast majority (very vast) would not be able to afford that so how can there possibly be a balance within the student body?

[James]

I'm afraid you are coming across as rather snobbish and insulting to Colfe's and Dunstan's, which are both great schools. Do you have any "EVIDENCE" for your opinions? Hearsay and personal experience, that is all you have. And a misplaced belief that the league tables are the be-all and end-all.

Likewise myself, so we are even there!

I am entitled to my opinion, as are you. In life we tend to base opinions on a combination of experience and the experience of others close to us, which I am doing. As are you.

As I said, the school I attended thrashes Alleyn's in the league tables pretty much every year. But I don't think that necessarily makes it a great school! In fact, I thought it was quite poor in many ways.

One of the prejudices Dunstan's and Colfe's face is the fact that they are located in urban, grittier areas - which no doubt puts snobs like you off. I don't care, I think they are all the better for it!

[Townleygreen]

Gee, over ?13k a year before you buy uniforms, sporting equipment, pay for school trips. Even with scrimping and saving a vast majority (very vast) would not be able to afford that so how can there possibly be a balance within the student body?Well, that's the question I guess!

These schools all offer bursaries, increasingly only on the basis of need rather than on pure academic ability (that had been the tradition) which enables there to be more of a balance in the schools. Some are better than others at doing this but I believe they are all doing their best to allow students from average income families to gain a place if they were able to satisfy the academic criteria as well. They try to hold events, run appeals to raise money for more and more bursaries.

On the Alleyn's web site it says these bursaries can be up to 100% of fees if your income level is particularly low. It is means tested.

Remember, Alleyn's used to be a direct grant school until 1976 (when the govt abolished that status) which meant anyone could get a place so long as they passed the exam - the state paid the fees depending on your income. There was also the Assisted Places scheme, abolished by Tony Blair, which allowed anyone - however poor - to attend these schools.

It is not that these schools want to only have rich kids!!

[Townleygreen]

James said

One of the prejudices Dunstan's and Colfe's face is the fact that they are located in urban, grittier areas - which no doubt puts snobs like you off.

Colfes is in the suburbs for goodness sake! It is further out than EDul!

I'll grant you St D's is in gritty Catford(!) lol. But it does have a lovely main building.

The reason that Alleyn's is arguably the best Co-Ed school in the country (read the reviews in the Good Schools Guide and son on, James, though obviously you prefer to just base your arguments on your irrational prejudice against Alleyns) is partly at least because it was the first to get established back in the mid 70s, whereas St D and Colfes (which I have already said are GOOD schools) only went CoEd relatively recently to try to widen their intake. In my opinion!! That perhaps is the reason that they havent managed to achieve the 50/50 CoEd that Alleyns has. I am not sure.

Maybe they don't want to be 50/50, but I feel that if you truly believe in co-education, then why wouldn't you want to have equal numbers of each?

[lucky bob]

hey Inglesa.

we are also returning to south london after 4 years spent in Croatia, my daughter is going to Kingsdale, entering year 8 in septrember. Kingsdale seemed really great when we visited but I am really worried about bullying, although I would be worried about that anywhere... what have you decided for in the end? Charter of Kingsdale?

This forum seems to have mostly positive things to say about Kingsdale ... fingers crossed!

[inglesa68]

Hi Nhewitt

There seems to be a lot of returnees this and next year, maybe we should start our own group!

I think we will go for Kingsdale first choice, charter 2nd choice and keep our fingers crossed as well. My husband is off to visit both in October, I will be going in November.

Obviously you have already gone through the process, visits, interviews, choices etc, can you tell me what you found? And can you tell me abit more about the bullying as that seems to be the only negative thing people are mentioning re Kingsdale?

Our children will hopefully be starting in 2010, is your daughter starting this year? If so good luck and best wishes for her x

[Curly]

That's interesting you mention bullying because a friend's child who started at Kingsdale last year told me her son had experienced less social problems than his primary friends who had gone to other schools. I like the fact each year group have their own playground and their own toilets.

[Pugwash]

i agree with an earlier writer re OFSTEAD reports.My daughter who lives in Orpington was very keen to get her daughter into a very good primary school which OFSTEAD had praised to the hilts. When she visited school, hated it. Taken around by the head, each classroom was quiet, children very polite and stood up when she and head entered the classroom, obviously high standard of work on the walls. Daughter asked about special needs support ( although her child did not have special needs, daughter worked with special needs teenagers and was interested in possible support). Head told her that they had only one special needs pupil who was autistic but he had Asperger's Syndrome and looked 'normal' so did not standout to other pupils. Daughter, visited another school, noise of children working happilly in classrooms, equally polite, good standard of work on the walls. same questions asked about special needs provision- totally different answers gave details of special needs catered for and teaching methods. OFSTEAD report average to good. My grandaughter has been at that school for 5 years and her little brother also attends. Grandaughter is one of 6 pupils in her year who are working at first year secondary school level - the teachers are able to cope with all abilities. Daughter extremely glad she was not taken in by the OFSTEAD report of first school. Her questions about special needs provision was motivated by having friends with special needs children whose education needs were only discovered in their first year of primary education. She said to go into a school with 150 children and find it quiet, seemed unnatural.Whereas she would have equally been horrified at a school which had excessive noise bordering on uncontrollable. School 2 had proved to her that children were accepted 'as children' and not 'minature adults'.

What I am trying to say in this long rant is that both the parents and child need to feel comfortable in school, obviously

good teaching and results are important as is school discipline, but it is the wider emphasis of the school which is more important in some instances. Their standing in the local community - what their near neighbours feel about the behaviour of parents and kids at delivery and collection times, the effectiveness of their PTA ( some schools will not allow PTAs to exsist)how willing are the families to support the school practically and at fund raising events. My youngest went to a very good local school but being a church school, the catchment area was Dulwich, Forest Hill, Nunhead, Peckham and Camberwell. Educational standards were high but when it came to fund raising or attending parents evening, the turnout was poor- with only about a quarter of the parents bothering to turn up - school was just a place where the children could be cared for to allow the parents to get onwith their own lives.

I would advise visit the schools you may be interested in, have an individual tour round, make sure you go near a break period so you can judge kids outside the confines of the classroom, go back and take your kids to view andget their responses.

[inglesa68]

Curly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's interesting you mention bullying because a

> friend's child who started at Kingsdale last year

> told me her son had experienced less social

> problems than his primary friends who had gone to

> other schools. I like the fact each year group

> have their own playground and their own toilets.

Hi Curly

Do your children go to Kingsdale, or intend on going?

[lucky bob]

Hi Curly,

thanks for post - do you mean each year group in Kingsdale has their own playground and toilet? That sounds good! We are coming from a small school in Croatia, which had a very uninspiring curriculum but an incredibly safe environment... I am guessing any secondary school in London would seem quite intimidating, but would appreciate any suggestions for a good start as a year 8 girl in Kingsdale.

I read somewhere that there were overwhelmingly more boys than girls at the school, something like 3 to 1, is this the case?

thanks all!

[lucky bob]

Hi Inglesa,

I replied to this earlier but am not sure whether I made a private reply or any reply, as the post is not here, so I will say again!

My daughter went for a music audition at Kingsdale in June and we were really impressed by the head of music, and the music department as a whole - apart from the fantastic building, the department seemed vibrant, bubbly and happy and the head of music a person who immediately gained our trust and respect. My daughter was awarded a music scholarship so we were over the moon about that, however we visited the school after school hours unfortunately so did not get to see it fully functioning.

I have come across various contradictory information on the internet - but judging by the posts on this forum it seems to be a welcoming, nurturing and challenging (academically!) school. My concern is about all the other mentions of 'challenging' i have come across on various internet sites, as in 'challenging behaviour', and today found on the TES site that Kingsdale was one of the schools listed to offer teachers financial bonuses for teaching in 'challenging' schools...

Again - any inside information from parents with children at Kingsdale would be really appreciated,

confused thanks!

[Debi]

I think that if you do a search on the forum on Kingsdale, you'll find the overwhelming response from parents of children currently there is extremely positive. I have a child going into Yr 10 and another starting in Yr 7 next week. It never would have occurred to me to look elsewhere.

I won't bother repeating what has been said in detail on other threads, but would just point out that the previous gender imbalance no longer exists - I believe the current intake is approx 45/55. Also that so-called 'challenging behaviour' exists everywhere - what is important is how it is dealt with and we have always found Kingsdale's response to be exemplary.

[lucky bob]

Thanks for your answer Debi,

and sorry for my fretting... my daughter starts next week and is really looking forward to it, especially after your update on gender equality-ishness.

[Debi]

Good luck to her and to you.

I also suggest you come along to the parents' forum if possible. We meet on the 3rd Friday of each month at 7.00 pm in the Upper School Library. The forum is run by the parents for the parents and there are always members of the Senior Management Team in attendance. It's a good place to exchange info, be consulted on new developments, air any general concerns and stay involved.

The school is very parent-friendly and actively welcomes input - it's far better to be on the inside working together to build on improvements than on the outside (possibly) complaining.

[lucky bob]

Yes, I'd love to be involved and offered any help the school might need, when my daughter was in primary in Stockwell ( prior to our move to Croatia) I used to go in for reading sessions, library help, etc. I don't know if Kingsdale runs any such schemes?

Unfortunately I wont be in the UK the 3rd Friday in September, but my husband will and we would definitely want to be actively involved!

[lucky bob]

Hi again,

just realised that the 3rd friday in september is the 18th, so if there is a parents' forum then I will be around - great!

[Curly]

Yes I'm pretty sure we were told there are designated toilets and playgrounds accessed by a key fob for each year group and I think CCTV in all the communal places. They also have a separate building with classrooms where any disruptive children are taught away from the main school and can only return after they have modified their behaviour.

[Debi]

... reading sessions, library help, etc. I don't know if Kingsdale runs any such schemes?

As well as the forum, I'm also part of a small group of parents who meet monthly with members of the English dept with a view to supporting literacy and encouraging a culture of reading in the school. We've organised events and we also have a rota of parents who go in every 3-4 weeks on a Sat morning from 10-12 to work 1-1 with children who are struggling with literacy.

[lucky bob]

That sounds great - I would definitely be interested in taking part! I travel a lot with my work, so would be great if I could arrange to come in more frequently when I am in UK? But I guess I will see you at the forum if not at the school gate, and thanks Curly for all your reassuring info.

I can't believe it's only a week today it all starts - readjusting to life in London, new school - this forum has been really helpful, so thanks all.