matthew123 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Only recently Ronnie Biggs, Great Train Robber, was released early as it was believed he was close to dying - then shortly afterwards his freedom was reported to have given him a new lease of life. Whether or not it will be a full recovery we will have to wait and see but it reminded me of Ernest Saunders a member of the 'Guiness Four' who was released early as suffering from Alzheimer's disease. On release Saunders made a swift recovery from "Alzheimer's" and subsequently took on the roles of Chairman and Consultant for various international firms.So, should this 'compassionate' back door to early release be kept open - or should we take the line that someone convicted of a serious crime (such as the 'terminally ill' Libyan convicted of the Lockerbie bombing) be kept behind bars with the same dispassion as the original crime(s) regardless of their state of health (real or manipulated)? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Can doctors be bought or conned by wealthy people? eg Saunders. If their release in on the basis that they are ill and they are only being released on these grounds then it should be subject to regular post release reviews to ensure the Ernest Saunders' of this world cannot buy/con their way out of justice. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-236918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Mick Mac Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Can doctors be bought or conned by wealthy people?> eg Saunders. Medico-legal opinions have long been a commodity. Court-approved experts have immunity in respect of their testimony: they can say virtually anything within the bounds of possibility in the certainty that their reputation will not be impugned even if their opinion is challenged.Money can usually buy a favourable opinion if one shops around - something denied to those relying on a state funded defence, who have to disclose any opinions paid for by public funds - if they can get funding for even one opinion, in the first place.(Caveat: that was the case when I was a campaigner against miscarriages of justice until a few years ago - things may have changed since then.)> If their release in on the basis that they are ill> and they are only being released on these grounds> then it should be subject to regular post release> reviews to ensure the Ernest Saunders' of this> world cannot buy/con their way out of justice.Given that this avenue is only open to the very rich, any attempt at reform is likely to fail.It is often said: British Justice is the finest that money can buy - in my experience, that's true. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-236959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angetastic Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 . Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMacGabhann Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Is that based on time spent or Mail articles read ange? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angetastic Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 . Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narnia Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Some people think this man is actually innocent. That's a crime in itself if he really is. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daizie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I think, if they are still a threat they should not be released , however, i doubt very much Ronnie Biggs will be robbing any more trains . Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 angetastic Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> In most cases prison is neither a deterrant nor does> it rehabilitate. More like a no frills holiday camp.It is also a university of crime: a place where new techniques and technologies are shared and life long camaraderies established.Professional criminal gangs won't recruit new members unless they are known to have done time thus hoping to avoid infiltrators and informers.In response, undercover police and customs officers often 'serve' time in prisons befriending known gang members or gathering general intelligence. Some prison cells are wired for sound. Prison authorities maintain logs of prisoner relationships that are entered into the Holmes computer database.In short, prisons have become an important element in the fight against crime. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-237896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Yes. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-238465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
panda boy Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Tricky one.I think if someone has shown genuine remorse and rehabilitation for their crime then yes, but each case would need to be judged on it's merits, and not a general rule that allows criminals out when they're old and sick.In Biggs case then yes. Despite his years on the run and cocking a snoot at the British legal system, he's now a frail old man with not long left in this world.What would be proved by keeping him inside?Alternatively i wouldn't agree that Charles Manson should ever be released, regardless of his health, based on his crimes and his lack of remorse for what he was responsible for.I would think that prison would appear to be more acceptable for some people if they knew they'd be allowed out to die in peace with their family towards the end. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-241612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn0312 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 For somebody to be released on compassionate medical grounds I believe that they should be of the state that they require permanent medical care and are therefore being released into medical care ie. a hospital or holistic hospice for the dying, rather than into the general community. If this is not the case then I do not think that they can be determined as sick enough to warrant this consideration. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-241649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshntosh Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 surely it depends on the criminal and the crime.like what panda boy said.one thing is for certain though: they really shouldn't ever get a hero's welcome. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-242715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfFocus Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Robyn0312 Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> For somebody to be released on compassionate> medical grounds I believe that they should be of> the state that they require permanent medical care> and are therefore being released into medical care> ie. a hospital or holistic hospice for the dying,> rather than into the general community. I think I would agree with this. Release should be conditional rather than absolute - if they turn out not to be as sick as previously thought then they should return.This is of course going to be harder to implement in the case of foreign prisoners such as the libyan jailed for the Lockerbee case. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-242720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 It really depends on whether the government can broker any oil or weapons deals as a direct result of the release. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-243153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
macroban Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I've forgotten why that criminal Nelson Mandela was released from prison after receiving a life sentence. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-243629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 A surprising number of presidents have served prison sentences - in some countries it seems to be a prerequisite for their heads of state. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-243643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Jeremy wrote:- It really depends on whether the government can broker any oil or weapons deals as a direct result of the release.That cynical post made me laugh Jeremy, as if anything like that could happen here:))Sticking two fingers up at our most powerful ally does not bode well either. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-243846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaineasy Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Should Criminals be released early on compassionate grounds?yes they should where the cost of caring for them in prison outweighs the benefits to society of them being there or where the seriousness of the crime doesn't warrant them dying in prison. pretty straightforward I think. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/7511-should-criminals-be-released-early-on-compassionate-grounds/#findComment-247135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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