Is there a God?

[Narnia]

In 100 years we will all be dead, most likely! What will the point of our existence have been? Is there an afterlife? Is there reincarnation? Is there a God? Discuss!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Declan goes for the big one!

What will the point of our existence have been?

Does there have to be one? If people stopped looking out for potential "afterlives" and spent a bit more time being less of a twonk in the 80 odd years on this planet, we'd all be better off

is there an afterlife?

If anyone says "we can't know", that is undeniably true - we can't KNOW. But we can have a fair old crack at best guess. If we believe something, what is that based on - peers, upbringing, human condition? It's essentially arbitrary so I'm choosing to believe in nothing

Is there reincarnation? Is there a God?

Both as above. But why WOULD there be either? reincarnation is a stupid idea just based on numbers alone - the planet has only so much room with the people living on it now. i thing it appeals to human vanity - "I'm too special to just disappear forever"

As for God - I'll return to that later. But short answer - and obviously I'm only allowed an opinion because there are zero facts available - but IMO No. there is no god

[Jah Lush]

There are no gods only religion and religion, especially organised religion sucks.

[bigbadwolf]

I'm personally not religious (never christened, baptised or been to confession) but I do agree with the saying;

"Even the staunchest Atheist will pray in their darkest hour"

[SeanMacGabhann]

a bit lounge-ish those replies?

[Narnia]

You make a lot of points Sean all very interesting. Just leads to more questions though.

If there is no point in existence why is there life in the first place? Why are you a human and why is Rex a dog? Do you place any merit on those people who claim to have had near death experiences where it seemed they were going 'somewhere'? Could reincarnation not include coming back as something other than a human?

Are we really here just to have as entertaining a life as is possible without there being a reason for it?

So far I've just asked questions. I'll offer an opinion at a later date.

[mockney piers]

Blimey declan, you could have warmed up with do clowns exist or something?

I'm not so quick to decide Horatio. We ourselves are nothing but a bunch of interacting proteins, themselves just some clevely chained atoms, yet there is life and there is conciousness.

I'm inclined to see the spark of divinity in so much about and around us, but have no idea what that means and it may be inherently unknowable.

Do I for a second believe that that spark resides in any prophet or messiah more so than it does any of us? Nope. Do I believe any man made institution or book written by men has a greater knowledge of that divinity or can even speak on it's behalf, mostly to stop us having fun?

Nope.

Afterlife or reincarnation? I'm with Smg on that one. Our elements are reborn in other life. Even our stars die and are reborn as more complex stars and planets and new life, but do we or they go to heaven? *shrugs* I don't know.

[daizie]

'Are we really here just to have as entertaining a life as is possible without there being a reason for it'?

More than likely Declan! enjoy ;-)

[Keef]

The question is "is there a God", not "does the christian God exist?". Noone can answer it, or even make a real educated guess IMO. I won't care either way when I'm gone if there is nothing. I do however, really want there to be something after, just so I can laugh at the more smug patronizing atheists and say sometimi along the lines of "in your face!".

[SeanMacGabhann]

If there is no point in existence why is there life in the first place? Why are you a human and why is Rex a dog?

I'm with David Attenborough on this one.

"He told me that he had been so pestered by those who saw a divine pattern in nature that he had now developed a stock response. ?I tell them they ought occasionally to think less of beautiful things like hummingbirds and orchids and sunflowers and think of other, less attractive things. They might, for example, think of the parasitic worms that live only in the eyeballs of human beings. Think of that worm boring its way through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa. A worm that?s going to make him blind. Are you telling me that God or an intelligent designer created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child?s eyeball??"

Do you place any merit on those people who claim to have had near death experiences where it seemed they were going 'somewhere'?

Decidedly not - they nearly died. Their critical faculties and brain neurons are not the most trustworthy

Could reincarnation not include coming back as something other than a human?

Anything COULD happen. the skies could part and God himself could show his face. But really.. it's not likely is it? What would be the driving force behind me coming back as an ant. or worse.. The only response I get is "ours is not to reason why" when really the answer should be "our only purpose should be to reason why"

Are we really here just to have as entertaining a life as is possible without there being a reason for it?

Not everything in life is entertaining - most of us deal with heartbreaking situations at many junctins in life. But I like how we as a species sometimes find solutions to the very harsh reality that is living on this planet. Of course I hate how much we muck up as well... but why the search for a reason?

[SeanMacGabhann]

And I'm sure God will be proud of you Keef

[Jeremy]

The purpose of our existence is to procreate - or not. To contribute to the gene pool, to further natural selection, and to contribute to the success (or demise) of the human race. That is what we are "programmed" to do, that will be your legacy.

The existence of God is physically impossible, as is "afterlife". And the concept of a supreme being who commands us all to worship him - under the threat of eternal torture - is not something I would ever wish to subscribe to.

[Narnia]

This is the drawing room so I figured I couldn't be throw out with this topic. Just testing the water really!

[Narnia]

Sean, what if you came back as an ant because you didn't use your human life to 'reason why'? Why search for a reason? Because we have been built to need one,maybe!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sorry Declan, but you are either being a Devil's Advocate (teeny irony ) or you might believe this stuff

If there is a divine creator/God/single parent and it sees fit to reincarnate me as an ant because of what I have done in this life? Well, because it's the Drawing Room I shan't swear - but you can probably guess my response

But let's say my bad deeds were worthy of demotion to insect-life - surely that has to be a life badly lived, and our purpose is to create a society which

a) discourages such behaviour

b) failing that, punishes such behaviour

If someone breaks into my house and murders my family, it is frankly small consolation that he/she is going to come back in 100 years as an ant!

[onvisa]

NO!

[mockney piers]

Isn't an emphatic no every bit as bad as an emphatic yes?

I'm also curious as to how Jeremys assertion that the existence of god, a metaphysical concept at best, is a physical impossibility?

That's what my duodenum said to my appendix about me!!*

apologies to annaj, bn5 et al, I have no idea whether or not they could chat.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I wouldn't say AS bad - I won't have any choice if God makes himself known but to go "well done God, you tricked me I was wrong"

But I don't see why God, as a concept that we have to decide is or isn't real, is worthy of any more seriousness than say, Can cats speak English, they just hide it from us

It's entirely impossible to prove the negative but why are people who are increasingly questioning religions place in the world so... disliked? It can't just be arrogance and smugness - otherwise religion itself would never have had a foothold in Ireland

(a country which has recently introduced a 25000 euro fine for anyone who is proven to have blasphemed)

and what about in in England where

"Exams for which pupils are expected to believe that the Loch Ness monster disproves evolution have been deemed equivalent to international A-levels by a UK government agency.

The National Recognition Information Centre (Naric) in Cheltenham, which advises universities and employers on the rigour of lesser-known qualifications, has ruled that the International Certificate of Christian Education (ICCE) is comparable to courses such as international A-levels, the Times Education Supplement has found.

"

Taking a hardline stance that God probably doesn't exist seems sane to me. If I leave that "probably" in btw, I'm accused of hedging my bets. If I take it out then I'm accused of arrogance.

[Brendan]

I don?t mean to sound contrary but it is a stupid question in the first place. The actual question is more like, why do we feel the need to somehow believe in something even if what you?re believing in is your actual act of not believing?

A less one dimensional journey would perhaps be exploring how the innate and universally shared human sense of something supernatural is interpreted by different people and how it has developed in western culture into what we now commonly perceive as God.

[Brendan]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> I'm also curious as to how Jeremys assertion that

> the existence of god, a metaphysical concept at

> best, is a physical impossibility?

Not just that but we don?t really know what the limits of physical possibility actually are. If indeed there are any.

The best you can say is that something is physically improbable to the best of our current knowledge.

[Jeremy]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> I'm also curious as to how Jeremys assertion that

> the existence of god, a metaphysical concept at

> best, is a physical impossibility?

> That's what my duodenum said to my appendix about

> me!!*

Simply, the existence of God - as described by major religions - would mean ignoring the known rules of physics.

You cannot ignore this fact with the simple disclaimer that God is a "metaphysical concept". Religion or "belief" is a metaphysical concept - "God" is not. God, according to Christianity, is capable of very physical interaction with the real world (interaction which, according to our scientific knowledge, is completely impossible).

[SeanMacGabhann]

but we can't claim to be at the limits of our scientific knowledge can we Jeremy?

[mockney piers]

Not good enough. I want a hypothesis, a trial and concrete conclusion before boldly claiming something is is impossible.

How do the laws of physics explain thought or conciousness?

Brendan has it, to the best of our knowledge ther is no evidence is all we can say.

[SeanMacGabhann]

a very good point. unfortunately partly contradicted by

[Jeremy]

Sure, you can always argue that we don't understand enough about the world yet, or that god operates outside the scope of we mortals call "science". And if you start bringing in those arguments, then yes of course it is impossible to disprove.

But then you come back to the spaghetti monster argument... you could claim that there is a moster made of pasta floating in the ether, but we can't observe him because he occupies a space outside of our earthly existence (but he can see everything we do, so evidently this "barrier" is a one-way thing). Personally, I will stick my neck on the line and say that he's definitely not there. But if others want to cling onto the possibility that our glutenous guardian is up there, be my guest.