No through route at Loughborough Junction

[HelBel65]

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/crunch-day-looms-over-traffic-experiment-a3107976.html

[TJ]

I wonder what the average MPG achieved by cars in the LJ area was before the closures, compared to now. i suspect they will have dropped significantly. a stationary car - even with start/stop technology spit out more fumes per mile than a moving car.

There are no green credentials for this proposal.

[@Woodwarde]

http://www.southlondonpress.co.uk/article.cfm?id=114276&headline=MP%E2%80%99s%20column:%20Kate%20Hoey%20-%20MP%20for%20Vauxhall%20-%20Non-stop%20chaos%20at%20Junction%C2%A7ionIs=news&searchyear=2015

Kate Hoey in the SLP

[davidk]

"Non-stop chaos"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTdE8lwWEAAtJ8V.jpg:medium

Taken at 12.40 today

[Beulah]

I used to use that cut through both ways every saturday on our way out west.

Apart from the first few weekends the traffic now seems to have stabilised - or perhaps moved elsewhere.

Rarely get caught up in much of a jam but then it is only saturdays I use it.

Certainly not chaos.

[Townleygreen]

exactly. Beulah, this is always what happens. people make a huge fuss coz of all the traffic then the people find alternatives and it all settles down.

People aren't daft, they adapt. Fuss about nothing frankly.

[mlteenie]

Driving west last Saturday afternoon we found that the whole stretch of Brixton Hill was chocka, as were Effra Road and Railton - eventually we went along Shakespeare Road, expecting Coldharbour to be rammed but in fact it was surprisingly quiet, including Walworth Road to St George's Road, where it became busy due to work behind the war museum.

I dread driving in London, which is why we have twice got rid of our car (but we keep being offered them!). I have great sympathy for those who must travel using that mode of transport. Ultimately I think it would be great if alternatives were presented and we all became less addicted to private motorised transport - I think we are slowly grinding in that direction.

I have worked next to the pedestrianised zone at Loughborough recently and I encountered many people who were against it, some of them saying it was because the traffic now races around Barrington Road instead, causing risk to pedestrians, but I'm not sure that was their only reason. It is inconvenient if you want to travel through there, but we must surely try and improve things for the greater good. I would say that the people enjoying the traffic-free space outnumbered those against, in my experience.

I think the most important thing for me as a cyclist, travelling up and down Loughborough Road almost daily, is that the traffic on that whole stretch from Oval to the Junction is waaay quieter and riding is much safer and a almost a pleasure. Surely the residents must be grateful for that.

I note that on google maps the road is already drawn as a no-through road.

[Scootingover]

Am I mistaken that the trial ended and the blocks removed?

The days of evaporation are long gone. Just gridlock moved around.

Safe for cyclists but we need usable roads for all Please.

[davidk]

Agreed scootingover.

And at the moment we only have usable roads for motor vehicles. So what's to be done?

[Nigello]

I don't have a car, haven't used one since 2000, walk and take public transport daily and very, very rarely use a taxi but I really don't like either the idea of or the implementation of the L'boro Jctn measures. That area needs movement, not cutting off like a cordon sanitaire. When you add in all the bother at Oval and Elephant it really does seem like nobody thought it through and simply wanted to be seen to be doing something radical.

[davidk]

The bother at the Oval and Elephant is because they are still building something. The bits they have opened at Oval > Vauxhall > Pimlico is great and traffic is now flowing smoothly.

Let's at least let them finish the construction before we start slagging it off?

[Scootingover]

davidk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agreed scootingover.

>

> And at the moment we only have usable roads for

> motor vehicles. So what's to be done?

Davidk - your photo does not show the barriers. Have they been removed?

[Scootingover]

And again interesting as the LJ development was NOT supposed to be driving the cycling agenda but I can see your focus.

messageRe: Dangerous junction for bikes: Peckham rye and Nunhead lane new

Posted by davidk Today, 10:17AM

The Southwark branch of the LCC has been campaigning for segregated tracks down that side of the Rye and on into Rye Lane to hook with Burgess Park and the various quiet routes down there. That would solve your problem but it has met predictably stiff opposition.

I'm sure your support would be appreciated: [southwarkcyclists.org.uk]

[davidk]

Not my photo - But I believe they were still in place yesterday.

[Scootingover]

davidk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not my photo - But I believe they were still in

> place yesterday.

OK so the photo is not a great help. Anyone actually know the facts on the barriers and penalty charges and what is in place today?

I'll be via that way on public transport (because this is the mode of transport that I rely on) at peak times when the impact is very severe and so can check myself in any case.

I get why some (but certainly not all) cyclists are in favour. I can see why others are not and the impact on public transport users and residents/passers through. This development was not supposed to be for cyclists.

[davidk]

Scootingover Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And again interesting as the LJ development was

> NOT supposed to be driving the cycling agenda but

> I can see your focus.

>

>

> messageRe: Dangerous junction for bikes: Peckham

> rye and Nunhead lane new

> Posted by davidk Today, 10:17AM

>

> The Southwark branch of the LCC has been

> campaigning for segregated tracks down that side

> of the Rye and on into Rye Lane to hook with

> Burgess Park and the various quiet routes down

> there. That would solve your problem but it has

> met predictably stiff opposition.

>

> I'm sure your support would be appreciated:

Absolutely. The LJ changes are about making that area more pleasant in general (which I think is being achieved). My main interest is the positive effect this will have on the cycling environment which has always been a bit grim but will inevitably improve with careful road closures.

[davidk]

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/housing/regeneration/loughborough-junction-what-you-need-to-know

Looks like the experimental closure has been largely defeated. Back to the drawing board for Lambeth. Shame.

[robbin]

I clicked on that link. Talk about weasel words from Cllr Braithwaite! That was a very irritating read.

I wonder if she EVER admits she might not be 100% right.

[Scootingover]

Good to see that there has been consideration of all feedback and the accompanying traffic monitoring numbers. While some roads will remain closed and so continue the experiment, the majority will be re-opened. There is therefore a new experimental TMO as noted below. The Lambeth website is down so I cannot provide a link to it.

Extract:

Having examined all the evidence presented in the eight-week review report, I have taken the decision to re-open Loughborough Road, Barrington Road, Lilford Road and Gordon Grove from Wednesday 25 November.

Padfield Road and Calais Street will remain closed under a new Experimental Traffic Management Order.

The road closures were part of a wider vision to improve the public space in Loughborough Junction, make it a safer and more pleasant place to live and help the area become a destination in its own right, rather than a busy through road for traffic to and from central London.

That ambition for Loughborough Junction is clearly shared, even though it appears that a majority of residents remain opposed to particular road closures.

It was important to trial this ambitious scheme as an experiment so we could monitor the impacts closely.

Having reviewed the evidence and listened to a wide variety of people in the area; it is clear that changes are needed but that the ultimate vision remains.

I hope to utilise the passion and strength of opinion that has been demonstrated on all sides over the last few months and bring people together to help guide the future of Loughborough Junction.

Over the coming weeks I will invite representatives from local businesses, ward councillors, community groups including LJAG, Loughborough Estate Management Board, Loughborough Estate TRA and the newly formed LJ Road Madness to join me and council officers on a steering group to begin the design work for public space improvements.

We will start with an open mind and welcome all ideas and contributions; there is money to spend from Transport for London, which if we work together and get it right, can make a positive and lasting difference to Loughborough Junction.

The experimental nature of the road closures made it difficult to communicate the wider benefits and vision for the area, and signage in some areas at the start of the trial was either unclear or ignored. Also, by focusing communications on the residents of Loughborough Junction, road users who travel through the area from further afield felt uninformed which undoubtedly led to confusion in the early stages.

However, it is clear from the review that more people are making journeys by foot and by bicycle through the area and I sincerely hope that continues.

Eight weeks was not enough time to provide any empirical evidence regarding response times and the Ambulance Service and Police did not oppose the continuation of the scheme, but the recent formal objection raised by the London Fire Brigade and anecdotal reports of increasing response times cannot be ignored.

That is why we will reopen Loughborough Road, Barrington Road, Lilford Road and Gordon Grove.

The process of removing signs and road markings will take a few days so to avoid confusion all restrictions will remain in place until Wednesday 25 November.

[robbin]

Aargh - there it is again (some of it)!

[apbremer]

How much did this farce cost?? Greatest Fun in the world is spending other peoples' money.

[davidk]

Is there at least some agreement on here that congestion, air pollution and a pretty grim public realm are all problems in that area?

Does anyone have any other creative solutions to those problems rather than just moaning about things the council are trying?

[macutd]

congestion, air pollution are pretty grim all over London it doesn't mean you have to have a, not in my road attitude. It just pushes the problem elsewhere!!!! So NO we don't agree with you.

Creative solutions= spread Boris bikes further south. Extend tube lines south.Better tax breaks for electric cars etc

[rodneybewes]

I agree Davidk - congestion and pollution are massive problems. I don't think our elected representatives are doing enough but they do realise that the impending fines for our horrendous pollution problems allied with the recognition at the increase in disease and death it causes is going to bite everyone at some point down the line so at least they doing something. It's a tricky position for them given the short-termism of a good proportion of the voters in the country. In reality not many people give a toss until they, or someone they love, is directly affected by it. Then they care a great deal.

It's hard not to laugh at the solution to the congestion and pollution problem being keeping as much traffic on the road as possible by making it easier to drive but it does get overtaken on the hilarity front by the extend the tube to south London solution. Which we know won't happen for decades, if at all.

In reality, the Loughborough Junction closure will be back, along with many more like it, as it will cut the numbers of vehicles on the road. I was very glad to see that the City get it as well. They are now going to close the Bank junction to all traffic apart from buses and cycles and pedestrianise the rest, thankfully.

[wulfhound]

Creative solutions= spread Boris bikes further south. Extend tube lines south

Road pricing that takes in to account the 200+ deaths per year from air pollution in Lambeth and Southwark, and the hundreds of injuries caused by vehicles on the road? The true costs imposed in terms of kids' loss of freedom of movement, blood pressure from constant noise, social losses from a population that shuts itself in private cages to move around the public realm?

All of a sudden, that ten minutes of time saved, or that feeling of being in a nice snug cocoon with a stereo instead of freezing your arse off on a bike at 10pm, or that made-it-in-life feeling of being able to show off in your SUV bought on cheap credit, won't look so attractive.

Also need to be smarter about light mobility in general. Some people can't cycle or find walking middling distances hard, but that doesn't mean they need a two-ton car to trundle a mile or two to the shops or the doctor. Electric mobility scooters should be subsidised to the point of being effectively free, and should be allowed anywhere that bikes are.

Did notice our MP tweeting her support for the road being reopened - the day after attending a climate change meeting and demanding urgent action on CO2. 2+2=5.