63 Bus route extension to Honor Oak Park Station

[TJ]

Vikki - I am a swaying Labour / LibDem supporter and your childish point scoring is pushing me away from Labour. Please stop this petty behaviour and take it elsewhere.

Please just sign the bloody petition as a resident rather than a politico and lets work together for once. You are just splitting hairs and it is unhelpful.

If you can't do this, please remove yourself from this thread and start your own - two petitions would be better than this one being ruined by you.

[TJ]

VikkiM Wrote:

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> Laurie - we've been talking to residents about

> this for some time. Would be very happy to sign a

> cross-party petition that fully reflects the

> concerns I and other residents have set out on

> this thread. Your petition doesn't do this and is

> too simplistic.

This is the first time I have heard of Labour taking an interest - and I have been looking into this subject for some time now. Can you send me a PM with evidence of your discussions demonstrating what 'some time' means.

[dbboy]

The bus does not "dump" them at the cemetery, that's the terminus! The walk up the hill is not a huge inconvienience, when people live here they realise this is part of life and good daily exercise, or thay can use the 363 to the first stop in Woodvale and then either continue to Brenchley Gardens, a 2 min walk to take the P12 or continue to walk to the junction of Forest Hill Road, Honor Oak Park and have the additional choice of the P4 bus. Or changing buses at the Heaton Arms/Tesco in Rye Lane to take the P12.

The cost of switching buses is not an issue: People tend to do more than one bus journey per day and as the majority use PAYG Oyster card to pay, three journeys plus 30p equate to ?3.90 per day, bus journeys thereafter are free on the day.

Most poeple, sorry practically every house has at least one car that they use daily.

If this proceeds traffic using Honor Oak Park will create further and longer congestion leading to gridlock. Honor Oak Park already supports the P4 and P12 and so a pilot scheme is not warrented, needed nor wanted. Have you witnessed how bad it gets during term time plus the parents from Cabrini who drive their childen to school and park on both sides of Forest Hill Road from Honor Oak Rise upto and around into Honor Oak Park and Honor Oak Road, plus the bottom of Canonbie and Netherby Roads and cause sever traffic congestion

[VikkiM]

Hi TJ

I think that a joint residents/residents-association and cross-party campaign would genuinely be the best tool to actually get progress ? many, many more residents are likely to sign this and it will carry a great deal more weight with TfL. If what we want is to improve local transport rather than just electioneer working together would be the sensible route forward. The cross-party approach on the South London Line campaign has hugely benefited from this approach.

But petitions aside, as I said above, my reason for posting was to correct the political point scoring and misrepresentation being done by the Lib Dems on the doorstep. Generally speaking I think it?s best that each party sticks to selling their own polices on the doorsteps rather than opting for this kind of tactic.

Bus services regularly come up on the doorstep and we have always been in close contact with Val about improvements to services. Some residents will have spoken to Val directly when she came to Peckham Rye last year to conduct a survey of bus services in the area ? and the pros and cons of a 63 extension were discussed with many residents. Many residents will also know that Renata has a long history of campaigning on transport and traffic improvements in this area and is a member of the Community Council Transport group.

[Laurie Eggleston]

Vikki - I've asked around our activists from Saturday - the only conversation you could be referring to is when someone asked one of our activists if Labour were supporting the campaign. To which they answered that they hadn't heard if you were or not. This is not therefore mispresentation by us but fact, as I can see no public commitment to this up until now.

Regardless, I'm glad you are supporting it and can we please now stop the point scoring. I've seen the answer Val got from TfL at Mayor's Questions, the same unconsidered refusal we got when Caroline Pidgeon asked a similar question for us earlier last year.

TfL eh? Gotta love 'em.

[EmmaG]

My tuppenceworth: I live just off FHR and can pick up a frequent and efficient 63/363 any time to Peckham Rye station and get into central London in half an hour. Many people seem to do this. When this train service stops in a couple of years, that will no longer be the case. I would very much like the 63 extended up FHR to an alternative station so that I can still get into London fairly quickly.

We should do a trial to see how long it takes to get a southbound 63 to the top of the hill and then wait and change to a P12 to Honor Oak to get the train into central London. I don't think that route works nearly as efficiently.

[dbboy]

EmmaG Wrote:

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> My tuppenceworth: I live just off FHR and can pick

> up a frequent and efficient 63/363 any time to

> Peckham Rye station and get into central London in

> half an hour. Many people seem to do this. When

> this train service stops in a couple of years,

> that will no longer be the case. I would very

> much like the 63 extended up FHR to an alternative

> station so that I can still get into London fairly

> quickly.

>

> We should do a trial to see how long it takes to

> get a southbound 63 to the top of the hill and

> then wait and change to a P12 to Honor Oak to get

> the train into central London. I don't think that

> route works nearly as efficiently.

I wasn't aware this had anything to do with the stopping of a train service, that's a bit of a "red herring" to be adding to the discussion, unless their is something being missed.

[jack bauer]

I think it is a good idea as there is no route form Dulwich to Honour oak,but where would the bus go after the station you would need a roundabout or someting put into place,because all the roads are residential and Stansted rd is a nightmare.

[Laurie Eggleston]

@ jack bauer - plan is for it to continue on and terminate at Brockley Rise.

@ dbboy - EmmaG is referring to the planned scapping on the South London Line (I'm assuming, unless she's uncovered some new secret TfL plot). While there will still be other routes into central London, with the removal of the SLL, they'll be less frequent. Network Rail seem determined to chip away at inner south London rail services to make them less convinient and less of a 'turn up and go' service.

[dbboy]

OK so what this is really all about is having a regular transport link from East Dulwich to Honoar Oak Park station to get connect with the new line to LO & ELL when they arrive, all this subterfuge and time wasting when this is what was wanted all along.

As previously stated the P12 and P4 already provide a service, so no need for an extension of the 63.

[Applespider]

So if the main purpose is to get a bus to/from Honor Oak Park, does that mean that your proposal would be for it to be a day/evening service. What's the proposal for the N63? Allow it to carry on the route of the 363 to Crystal Palace or have half the night buses going to Brockley Rise and the other half to Crystal Palace or keep it only going to Brockley Rise?

As a Wood Vale resident who wouldn't use the Honor Oak extension but does use the the N63 on occasion, I'd like a clear answer on this one before deciding whether I'm favour of the extension.

[Bic Basher]

Personally I don't think an extension of the present 63 is the right option as it'd make the current service unreliable, however there is scope for a route that could start from Peckham using single deckers that runs alongside the 63 route, then the P12 to Brockley Rise so that passengers can use the new ELL service from HOP.

I wouldn't mind the 63 running all the way to Crystal Palace during the day again, like applespider, I live on the ED/FH border and the 363 while more reliable doesn't take you all the way into town.

[Medley]

> there is scope for a route that could start from Peckham using single deckers that runs alongside the 63 route, then the P12 > to Brockley Rise so that passengers can use the new ELL service from HOP.

Bic, that sounds like sense to me.

I can't see them ever extending the 63 to HOP, although I'd love it if they did - there's no turnaround, as there is on F H Road.

But your idea of a plug the gap one sounds like sense. Presumably it could then run on to Lewisham (DLR etc) or somewhere else useful?

This idea would avoid the N63 issue altogether.

[dbboy]

Going onto Lewisham DLR would replicate the P4 and part of the 122.

[Medley]

True, but if there was the demand for it that's not an issue. In fact, it's a need. But maybe there isn't the demand.

[sfgutmann]

I live near the junction of Forest Hill Road and Dunstans Road, and work in Whitechapel. I am also a Disabled Freedom Pass holder, soon to move to the Senior version. Even without the East London Line, Honor Oak Park station is the only alternative to Peckham Rye when horrendous incidents occur like this week at the junction with East Dulwich Road shuts down access that way. With the ELL, I could travel without going via London Bridge and Monument. On Tuesday, I had to walk right up One Tree Hill and down thr other side to get to the station. With Cardiovascular and Respiratory problems it wad too much. Bloggers and Travel Watch member might not think the distance far, but seem to be

unconcerned about the elderly and disabled-how selfish! As for cost, provision of stock etc, why not a Peak hours only extension? Surely that is not impossible?

[dbboy]

deleted

[evans1971]

Doesnt route 484 already connect East Dulwich to the new East London LIne at Brockley??

Wouldnt that be a cheaper option to enhance frequencies - as I cannot think where on earth the 63 would then terminate; Brockley Rise is already full with the various buses that terminate there!! This would also then connect onward to Lewisham station and all the other services that go from there!

And who would be paying for the thousands of extra bus miles run every year on that route - the buses already in London cost us ?600m a year to subsidise........ ?600m !!

[James Barber]

Isn't it only 3 more stops for the 63 to reach Honor Oak Park station. That must be a tiny rejig of the bus timestables to make this possible.

Running more 484's for the whole route would cost loads.

Seems a bit unreasonable to suggest an alternative and then rubbish the original idea as your alternative is so expensive and damn the original idea by the total bus subsidy in London. Most of that bus subsidy being presumably the 40% who get free bus travel as they're retired, not in work, disabled, under 16, etc.

[dbboy]

Back to this old chestnut again - people seem to be forgetting the P12 and P4 bus routes which already provide cover from Brenchley Gardens to Brockley Rise and Lewisham.

[TJ]

thew time it takes to change busses, you might as well walk. The idea is to provide a linked up service with maximum advantages, not break every journey into multiples of 200 yards changes..!

[Bic Basher]

JBARBER Wrote:

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> Isn't it only 3 more stops for the 63 to reach

> Honor Oak Park station. That must be a tiny rejig

> of the bus timestables to make this possible.

The problem would be that buses would get stuck particularly during peak hours down Honor Oak Park towards Brockley Rise which would make the 63 service unreliable for the majority of users who use the service between Forest Hill Road and Kings Cross.

One of the major problems of the old 63 when it ran to Crystal Palace was the unreliability of the through services.

[rbarton]

I have just bought a flat on the Forest Hill Road, and I would very much like to see the 63 link up with the future Honor Oak East London Line extension. Great idea.

[Medley]

I still think the big problem is the turnaround of buses. Surely a new one would have to be built? Otherwise what are the double deckers meant to do once they get to HOP? I'm in favour in principle, though; it would suit me.

[Amysdad]

If the 363 continues as is, that means only half the current service goes to HOP? Not good enough I think.