63 Bus route extension to Honor Oak Park Station

[Laurie Eggleston]

I'm a Liberal Democrat council candidate for Peckham Rye (which covers a lot of East Dulwich) - and we're currently campaigning for TfL to extent the 63 bus route 3 more stops to Honor Oak Park station.

It currently stops outside the Forest hill Tavern pub. If it carried on, it would give residents living in East Dulwich a quick bus link to Honor Oak Park station - a station that from 2010 will be running Overground line services to Bermondsey, The City and the East End.

This would provide an alternative, quick route back to East Dulwich from the City. Currently, the only route to the City is to take the 63 bus the other direction to Elephant and Castle and then get another bus, or tube; or to get the train from Peckham Rye to London Bridge and then bus/walk the rest of the way. Either way, TfL's website reckons it currently takes over an hour (longer than the journey from London Bridge to Brighton...)

TfL and the Mayor have told us that the extension would cost too much. However, we believe that they haven't accounted for the fact that from next year Honor Oak Park station will be an attractive route to the City. Even if they have, we still think TfL should fund transport links in South London - Boris Johnson promised to look at alternative transport improvements when he axed the tram to Peckham. So far he's come up with nothing.

Please help us put pressure on TfL by supporting our campaign. There's a facebook group for it here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=134053991759#/group.php?gid=134053991759&ref=ts

The more people that join will help us demonstrate there's a demand from this from local residents. South London doesn't have much of a transport network, so it is essential that what we do have links up and is interconnected.

Thanks,

Laurie Eggleston

[sweetgirl]

i think its a great idea!!!!!!

[Applespider]

Seems like a sensible idea during the day but what happens when it turns into the N63 and the route is extended to Crystal Palace?

Also, not entirely sure where you'd put a bus stand near Honor Oak Station?

[ontheedge]

Dread the thought of double deckers coming up over the hill and the extra traffic it will bring to an already a busy noisy stretch of road as well as the extra crowds at the station.

[beaver14uk]

Not in my back yard then sod the rest of you attitude.

ontheedge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dread the thought of double deckers coming up over

> the hill and the extra traffic it will bring to an

> already a busy noisy stretch of road as well as

> the extra crowds at the station.

[Horsebox]

I support it in principle but only if Nasty Nigel and Beaver14 can drive the route exclusively.

[beaver14uk]

lol I will Nigel a call.

Nice one. Where has our 185 thread gone I wonder.

Horsebox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I support it in principle but only if Nasty Nigel

> and Beaver14 can drive the route exclusively.

[richfish]

I think that sounds like a good idea too. Good luck. Any improvements to the ever deteriorating network of public transport in SE22 are welcome in my view. Apparently there are plans to reduce the already pathetic frequency of trains from East Dulwich to London Bridge which has already had peak morning hour reductions. Madness. Can you campaign for that to be changed too please?

[Cassius]

It's only a 10 minute walk at the most and quicker than by car in rush hour.

[Ladygooner]

Just what are the extra costs involved in the bus going 3 more stops along? A change to the signage on the bus stops or am I missing something?

[KoolBananas]

Perhaps attention should be paid on getting the TFL website up to date and providing accurate travel suggestions and times. Really, if I wanted to take the bus from ED to Kings Cross I wouldnt expect to be advised to go back on myself, change several times before I'm even going in the right direction and then get the right bus. Oh and the advise on crossing a major fast busy road where there is no pedestrian crossing is just not advisable. Shall I continue or is my point already clear?

It generally does NOT take over an hour to get to central London via the 63 route or any other bus from ED. The councils interest in digging up the road in an unorganised manner (gas, elec etc companies not getting together and doing it in one hit) along with these ridiculous unnecessary ideas of adding "ends" to roads causing traffic congestion and disruption causes delays.

I'd say focus on the more important and immediate things before branching out into something really, as a "candiate", we know you're not really likely to come through with. (tu)

[KalamityKel]

May I draw your attention to certainly a much more needy cause Save the South London Line between Victoria & London Bridge

As KoolBananas has said focus on the more important issues first before getting all over exciting for the sake of three WALKABLE stops!

[Loz]

Can we redirect the 63 past ED station as well? That'd be rather handy...

(only partially serious suggestion!)

[Jeremy]

Laurie Eggleston Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Currently, the

> only route to the City is to take the 63 bus the

> other direction to Elephant and Castle and then

> get another bus, or tube; or to get the train from

> Peckham Rye to London Bridge and then bus/walk the

> rest of the way. Either way, TfL's website reckons

> it currently takes over an hour (longer than the

> journey from London Bridge to Brighton...)

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but this is complete nonsense!!

ED station to London Bridge is 10-15 mins. Then a 10 min walk to Bank or a 20 min walk to Liverpool Street.

This bus route extension may well be of benefit to Honour Oak residents, but it's of little benefit to East Dulwich residents.

[KalamityKel]

Well said

[Laurie Eggleston]

Hi everyone - thanks for the comments. To address some of them...

It's a 15 walk - up a steep hill. Whilst it may not sound like much - if you're elderly or have kids in tow, or if it's pouring with rain, you'd appreciate a bus!

The cost comes from there having to be 4 extra buses serving the route (TfL's estimate) in order to maintain service levels along the rest of the line. TfL have also said they'd have to convert the current P12 terminus at Brockley Rise for the bus to terminate. We say this is daft - the bus can loop round and terminate where it currently does.

KoolBananas - you're right about TfL's website giving sometimes crazy directions - most common is directing people on to 2 or 3 buses when one would do (nice little earner for them!). But a councillor would get the same reply from TfL as a candidate - it's not about power, anyone can campaign for something. If enough people convince TfL it's a good idea and they want the change; they'll do it. This is something that people in East Dulwich have suggested to us (quite a few too) when we speak to them on their doorsteps. As council candidates we want to represent residents and respond to things they tell us about! If people tell us about any changes which can be made to improve the area, we'll try and do something to help.

And KalamityKel is right to draw attention to the Save the South London Line campaign - it's a crucial campaign which all the parties support, as should any South-Londoner! But let's not get tribal about this, people can support more than one campaign.

And I will ask TfL if Nigel can drive. No promises though.

[Laurie Eggleston]

And yes - this is perhaps aimed at people living along the roads off of Forest Hill Road (Dunstans, Brenchley Gardens, Honor Oak Rise, Mundania Road etc). I'm not saying there aren't alternatives, it's just daft how if you live along aforementioned streets that there's a bus that almost takes you to a station, but stops on the other side of a big hill.

And as I said, I've not just dreamt this up one afternoon - this is something people have asked us to help change!

[KalamityKel]

what about the 363 bus route?

[rbmartin]

Ideally it might be a good idea to have a single decker service running between Peckham and Brockley Rise which would run as route 63/363 to the Forest Hill Tavern then as the P12. However 2 buses use the stands at the terminus, the 172 as wekk as the P12. This would mean at least another stand for another bus route.

Another solution maybe to terminate the P12 at the Forest Hill Tavern so that the 63 can be extended.

[acer]

The other option to get into the city from this neck of the woods is to take the train from Nunhead, Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill depending on your location, which stops at Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon & Kings Cross St. Pancras. The journey is 23mins from Nunhead to St Pancras, so shorter than that if you are getting on/off at any of the other stations.

This is the line that runs out to Sevenoaks and used to terminate at Blackfriars, but since they are doing a lot of work there (with the new bridge link across the river meaning access from the north and south banks) the route has been extended north all the way to Luton & Bedford depending on which train you get. Its a very handy line, which I take now all the way to Kings Cross rather than changing at London Bridge and I avoid the tube altogether!

[Nero]

I support the extension of the 63 to the railway station. It is an uphill walk and it seems perverse that the bus should stop just three stops short.

And as for KoolB saying that it doesn't take a bus an hour to get to central London from ED - it can and it does.

Finally, I second taking the train from Denmark Hill or Peckham `Rye to Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon and St Pancras. Shame it does not work at weekends.

[dbboy]

Have you thought about using the P12 which comes out at the end of Brenchly Garden, left into Forest Hill Road, left onto Honor Oak Park, stops virtually outside HOP stationa and terminates at Brockley Rise. Further more it can be picked up anywhere in Peckham/

[richfish]

I couldn't agree more with Nero. Said train is a good route but the train doesn't run after 9pm in the evening, let alone at weekends. And its hardly frequent in the morning rush hour either - I think I am right in saying that it can be nearly 30 minutes between trains at core peak time. What a marvelous service! Factor in the often horrendous time spent trying to buy a ticket at Peckham Rye station (I am not a daily traveller so don't have a travelcard and you can't use Oyster PrePay at these stations) and the journey time is certainly well over an hour, get your timing wrong and it is well over that length of time. It is a joke - this is Zone 2 - I could probably do it in half the time if I lived in Croydon.

You would definitely get my vote Laurie if you can do something about this as the public transport service from SE22 to central London has been getting steadily worse in the 10 years I have lived here whether it is overcrowding, frequency of service, buying a ticket, or just how bad it all smells - in fact it is the one thing that will make me move! If you work in town and have a reasonably long working week and/or socialise after work it is a nightmare.

[Laurie Eggleston]

Richfish - believe it or not we're currently fighting, along with all the parties, just to stop the number of trains into central London getting cut. See above for a link to the Save the South London Line campaign for details. But yes, improvements to transport links is a hugely important issue for South London and something we will campaign for constantly. There is a huge North/South divide in London transport. The single biggest thing that could be done to improve South London would be to increase the transport links and the frequency of services in and out of central London.

One of the biggest problems for us is that whereas North London is all part of the Underground network, South London is mainly franchised out, making changes very awkward. The franchises are controlled by Department for Transport who seem to place a low priority on South London - we need to change this attitude. But this is why we need to make the small tweaks (such as extending the 63) to make what we have work better, whilst campaigning for the longer-term improvements that will really make the difference.

Are people aware of the 'Future Peckham' plan? It's an Area Action Plan that talks about what people want the town centre to look like in 10-15 years time. One of the things we're pushing for is for the removal of the shops immediately in front of Peckham Rye station and replacing them with a new public square with cafes under the archways, and restoring the Victorian facade of the station, to create a welcoming, open entrance to Peckham (instead of the current hidden away entrance).

As for Oyster PrePay - it's currently due to operate from 2010 (but don't be surprised if that gets put back again!)

[Applespider]

If the bus just looped round to use the existing 63 terminus then what happens to those who want to get on at Honor Oak and go back to ED? They'd have to get off and move to the one at the front? That might cause some confusion and irritation itself.

And still no answer on the night bus part of the route? Would. The Honor Oak spur just stop at midnight?