37 weeks pregnant and my baby is breech...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Well, it seems I just cannot keep away from Kings!:) I went for a repeated scan due to growth in the stomach area, nothing was mentioned about the growth ( though my notes now say drop in growth of FL measurement) not much was said at all during my scan by two sonographers. Just that they would like me to go to suite 8 ( The Antenatal Centre) and make an appointment ASAP with the consultant as after all this time of my baby being a good boy and being head down, he has decided to turn breech and has been like that all week. I thought it was strange because last week I was in terrible pains with my stomach which I have never been before, and it was because of his position.

I am quite upset that after all the problems and the low laying placenta that has moved that he has decided to turn breech, I now have to discuss my options regarding the breech pregnancy. Can anyone offer advice? is it possible for a baby from 37 weeks onwards still to turn due to lack of space?

I have read spinning babies online and have been doing the knees to chest position and inversion etc but no luck. It does feel like he is trying to move his head but its his leg/feet that seems to be stuck down below because I am met with horrible pain when he attempts to move it but cannot seems to for some reason.

I really do not want to have a C section, I know they are not as bad as people make out but I don't want one because I suffer from a skin condition anyway which means scar tissue will take longer to heal on me and will turn into the Koebner phenomenon. I have been reading up on natural breech delivery also, and it does not look overly positive.

I see the Consultant on Tuesday, A. Davies at Kings and would like to be prepared in what to expect and what to ask.

My OH is being positive and saying the baby will turn at the last minute.

Thanking you in advance for any advice.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Tough luck. Sounds like you need a shepherd! There is still time to turn though it may be unlikely at this stage.

Have you considered giving birth naturally? If you have a good midwife he/she may be prepared to deliver this way - it doesn't have to be a ceasarean.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I am seriously considering giving birth naturally indeed, I was hoping to be overwhelmed on here with positive natural breech birth stories. Sometimes reading information on the internet is not good with all the stories about damaging their pelvis, the head not being able to mould, the cord getting stuck and the placenta coming away. All quite scary. I am thinking of trying the ECV also but my mother is insistent that all of these things do nothing but cause distress and pain to mother and baby and that the baby will choose the position that THEY want.

[Fuschia]

Have you already seen that named consultant? I can recommend Leonie Penna as being the most progressive of the doctors there, maybe call and ask to speak to her secretary, see if you can get her opinion. It's also possible to discuss with the head midwife, to see what they feel about natural delivery. The hospital will have guidelines for their preferred protocol for a vaginal breech birth which you can request in advance and discuss through with them/

For eg I looked at the twin guidelines and agreed with them I did not wish to have continuous monitoring, or a paediatrician present in the room.

Being informed will help you plan and choose the best path for you.

Having said that, a planned caesarian can be a positive experience.

[Fuschia]

http://www.new-baby-and-beyond.com/breech-birth.html

xx

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

When I went to book my appointment, they looked in my file and booked with my named Consultant that was allocated to me during my booking in appointment at 12 weeks, the receptionist said that is the consultant they go with. I see my consultant on Tuesday so depending on what he/she says, I have no idea what to expect, I will however note the name down and enquire about talking to this consultant and the head midwife to explore all my options.

[sillywoman]

Cathy Walton is a consultant midwife at Kings, she has years of experience including vaginal breech deliveries. Having said that I do know plenty of women who've had successful ECV and gone on to have straightforward labours all at Kings.

As Fuschia said, Leonnie Penna is the best Obs consultant to see if you can.

Babies can turn right up until, and even during, labour.

[Fuschia]

I think it would make sense to ask if you can see another consultant for a second opinion at least. If you're not keen on confrontation, I'd contact Cathy Walton directly, and enquire about changing your consultant as well.

[skip]

I've heard that accupuncture can turn the baby, however have no further details on this. May be worth making enquiries?

[antijen]

I have had two breech births heidihi, with my first I had Dr Zander, a doctor not in my area, which meant I needed a doc in my area to agree in writing that they were happy for Dr Zander to take me on (I was with him for my first two, home births). Because I had fallen out with the doctor in my own area I didnt bother with the letter nor let him know I was pregnant, this caused a big problem as I was refusing to go into hospital for the births. Kings wrote to Dr Zander saying he would be held responsible if anything went wrong, as he had taken me on withou recieving a letter from my local doc and they absolutely did not think as with my previous pregnancies I should be having a home birth (due to health problems I have). I felt I had to go in, Dr Zander arranged a visit, I was 39wks, Dr gibb, a consultant at kings tried to turn her but I asked him to stop as it didnt feel right. He said if he was on duty he had no probs with what I wanted which was no interference whatsoever. She was 15days late, I put off going to the last hour, and the young doc on duty tried to give us a hard time saying because it was an extended breech it had to be an assisted birth, which meant having to argue where he stormed out to get another doc saying there was nothing he could do and it was impossible for me to deliver, on the next contraction she was born, with just my husband and the midwife there, although she said she couldnt intervene with a breech in hospital, which suited me. Things hopefully have changed and although this doesnt sound good heidihi, once the doc was off the scene the problem was gone and apart from his attitude and the hospital (they frighten me) I enjoyed the birth which was natural, she was 1oz under 9lbs. Good luck, I think letting them know that you will be the one who decides how your birth will be and knowing yourself the choice is yours.

[Claribel]

I'm in exactly the same position at 37 weeks but based at Tommies. My midwife is adamant that if is still breech at 38 weeks they will book me in for a c-section at least a week before due date (a bit scary as I still haven't finished work) -- they just don't have the expertise or confidence in vaginal breech births these days and much as I would rather go for that option, I'm too scared to risk any danger to the babe.

In the meantime I am trying all the tricks to try and get it to turn. I went to the Dulwich Therapy Centre to get Moxibustion treatment, which my partner now treats me with twice a day (heating a charcoal stick by your little toe for 20 minutes). It sounds totally crazy, but the baby really does move after or during, and anwyay, I'm prepared to try anything.

I have a scan booked for Wednesday and if ECV is an option will have that straight afterwards. I've heard loads of success stories about ECV so am pinning my hopes on that. I think it is more distressing and/or painful for mum than baby, so I wouldn't rule it out.

There are also lots of old wives tales which I'm giving a go ... putting frozen peas on the baby's head to make it want to move, shining a bright torch or light up from below, playing music lower down to draw it near, and of course lots of crawling around on all fours or leaning with forearms on the ground and hips in the air.

Obviously none of this has worked for me, yet, but if I do have to go down the c-section route at least I can feel I have exhausted all the alternatives.

Good luck!

[lorraineliyanage]

I have a whole moxibustion stick that you can have if you want to try that, heidi. I only used it once but it's been sat in my bathroom cabinet for ages now!

[linzkg]

Read my recent thread .. http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?25,268504,page=1 .. the forum members were very supportive to say the least!!

I had an ECV at 38 weeks and it was successful - the consultant at kings that did it was amazing - she was very confident and made me feel at ease - I said I'd NEVER put myself or the baby through it - but became nervous about a natural breech delivery due to all the conflicting opinions - its uncomfortable but the baby and I both returned to "normal" and we were unaffected.

I had a troublesome pregnancy with loosing 10kgs in first 3 months with illness

I had a low lying placenta and blood lakes - the placenta lifted jsut clear of 5cms at 34 weeks

I tried moxibustion but it didn't work - but I'd still highly recommend it - go and see Dan at Dulwich Health Rooms (you've got nothing to loose!)

I was with Brierley and had a very experienced midwife, Ruth, who has delivered natural breech on many occasions so would support you

I do suggest you try what you can to turn the baby (but yes hurry as you're running out of time - call the hospital and demand an appointment asap if that's the route you decide to go)

I really don't want to get in the way and cause unrest (but this is very close to my heart so I'm going to say what I have to say) .. I ended up having a natural birth at home BUT he was 10lb 8oz and my first .. the size had been undetected(!!!) .. thankfully he wasn't still breech as I was confident that I would have tried the natural delivery even if it remained breech .. my situation was unique I'm sure but we ran into major complications and its a miracle we have him today, seriously but this was DUE TO THE SIZE and the cord was wrapped around his neck and body so thankfully we weren't going for a natural breech delivery as we would have probably lost him .. [a story for another day on the forum as I'd appreciate some feedback and opinions] .. but just tick off ALL the boxes and do WHATEVER you can to ensure the baby is a "average" size BEFORE you go ahead with a natural breech delivery - please, I'm begging you!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Thank you everyone, you have been all great with the advice and support. Lots of food for thought. I have been discussing it all with my OH, and at the moment I am trying everything as suggested on spinning babies and on here ( bag of cold vegs, light, music, breech tilt, inversion and pillows under my hips etc)but he refused to budge. What is quite confusing is that should I be feeling his hiccups down low if his head is up? I am hoping the sonographers ( both of them!) made a mistake as the hiccups are low down, and if his head is up, it does not make sense because when he was head down, I always felt his hiccups low down.

I decided to sleep on my back last night, and that got him moving, for the first time in ages he was trying his best to move, after a good few hours on my back, he was laying transverse, I didn't know what lump was what so could not give him a helping hand but I tried the light and music to try and guide him the right way.

This morning, I have a lump on the top of my belly , but naturally I have no idea if it is his bum or head, but I am hoping he has not moved back into breech position again after all of that pain and discomfort yesterday trying to free his feet and bum!

I see the Consultant on Tuesday, if he is still breech I will go for the moxibustion first ( so Lorraine I will take up your offer if he is breech and I have my consultation at Dulwich Health Centre) and then the ECV.

I will probably decide against the natural breech birth, after watching lots of videos on Breech delivery, and reading up about it, it really did scare the hell out of me and I would prefer to have C section ( even though I absolutely do not want it) in order to avoid distress to my son.

BUT hopefully everything I did last night did the trick and hopefully that lump on top of my bump is his bum!!!

I shall update on Tuesday!

Once again, Thank you!!!!

P.S Linkzg Thanks for all your information, that is a big baby!! Ouch!! My baby is just over 5lbs at 37 weeks, they don't think he will be big at all, but then they cannot be completely accurate! Glad it all ended well for you and babe x

[sillywoman]

Hmm, I do understand your concern Linzkg, but if you had still been breech and were opting for vaginal delivery you would have been urged in the strongest possible terms to deliver in hospital. I think you have found it difficult to get a midwife to deliver a known breech baby at home, you would have had to fight very hard indeed.

I don't know your circumstances at all - I'm guessing maybe shoulder dystocia? - but to those of you about to have babies please don't be alarmed by Linzkg's hinted at story. If a Mum of a breech baby was aiming to deliver vaginally the baby's heart rate would be very carefully monitored, if the cord was around the baby's body then as soon as baby began to descend into the birth canal the cord would begin to become compressed and this would show up in the baby's heart rate - at this point a c/section may well be indicated to get the baby out safely straight away. Whilst size can be an issue for some babies and Mums, it's by no means an issue for all.

labour and birth, whilst for most a safe but intense experience, still carries an element of risk whatever method of delivery you choose. My suggestion is; Get as much accurate, evidence based information as you can, and make decisions based on this, and your knowledge of your own personal situation and preferences. Be prepared to change your plans as the experience of labour unfolds and listen to the midwives you have attending you, their aim is the same as yours, a healthy Mum and healthy baby.

[Smiler]

Best wishes Heidi Hi, and Claribel.

On telling what position the baby's in, your midwife or even husband might be able to tell which way round he is - with my breech baby, I had a big bump under my right boob,felt lots of kicks and hiccups down below (think they may kick when they hiccup!) and my husband could hear the heartbeat by putting his ear to the bump. The bump also looked bottom-heavy and lop-sided.

Don't worry about being "pushy" with the doctors / midwives: ask all your questions, and challenge if you aren't happy etc.

Reckon that if a C-section is necessary a planned C-section would be better than an emergency one, I had an emergency one (the breech wasn't diagnosed until I was in labour, so there was no time to try to turn the baby). The emergency one wasn't as bad as I had feared. The advantage of a planned one is that the care is scheduled, you are talked through things in advance, and everyone is in place on the day, whereas with an emergency people are working on other things and - for me - it felt quite rushed and a scramble to get them all there in theatre. My neighbour had a planned C-section shortly after mine, and reckon she had a much calmer experience.

Linzkg, glad the (not so) little one is here - congratulations!

Best wishes for the births.

[helena handbasket]

I had a planned c-section and it was lovely. Obviously I was not excited about having it, but once the information was put in front of me it became clear. I was sent for a non-stress test and after an hour of listening to a wonderful and perfect heartbeat I realized that the only goal was to get this healthy baby out in one piece. I also realized that it was my first test of selflessness in motherhood....... letting go of what I wanted for myself for the assurance of a healthy baby. Plus I didn't think that birth trauma was the way I wanted my son to start his life. It's very different for everyone, but I felt really good about the decision once I realized that. Still do.

Because it was scheduled, it was just a really lovely experience. Sunny fall day, relaxed and excited, and the surgical team were festive and light (as they should be....it is after all a birth!) And when they handed my son to me it made no difference how he got out........ it was just pure joy. I was out of the hospital in less than 48 hrs with no complications.

My friends who had emergency c-sections tell a very different story and I find that sad. They all say that they kept telling themselves that their bodies were built to do this and were determined to see it through, even when advised not to. Some had quite traumatic birth experiences because of it, and didn't get to experience the joy. As a very good friend who is a doula told me "I've seen some really wonderful c-sections, and some really bad vaginal births. Sometimes nature had a different plan".

I'm not trying to scare or convince, just let you know that if you do chose a c-section it can be wonderful and you don't have to feel bad or disappointed. It may be different than you had imagined, but it's still the birth of your child and it's still amazing!

[Smiler]

The C-section drugs were pretty good, hee hee.

[The Nappy Lady]

Helena Handbasket - very good, sensible advice, which I whole heartedly agree with. Despite having had two wonderful, wonderful drug free home births (I'm a lucky XXX I know), and being a huge advocate of natural birth, I also believe every mother should have the choice to have the birth they want, and also to feel empowered (and accepted) in having the birth that is best for baby and themselves. As you say sometimes nature has a different plan, and at the end of the day, although the birth itself seems like such a huge thing in the moment, in the years to come it is only a tiny part of the 'motherhood' experience, and a healthy Mum and baby are much more important.

Of course we are programmed to be obsessed by the birth in the latter stages of pregnancy and it is hard when things feel as if they are not going to plan. I think in some ways deciding on a planned C-Section allows you to regain the control, so in some cases it really is the best option, if only for that reason. I know one of the reasons I loved my home births was because I felt 'in control' of the experience, and I do think that is very important.

What upsets me more are the unneccesary interventions that take place in some labours which can ultimately lead to a very bad labour experience. My pregnancy yoga teacher once described a natural labour as a straight line, and every intervention as taking you one step further away from the line...and at each step it becomes harder to get back to the line, although it is always possible. A planned C-Section based on strong medical reasons I have no issue with at all though.

HeidiHi and Claribel good luck, however it works out the most important thing to remember is that you'll soon be holding your babies. I hope they decide to 'follow the light' and get their heads down!

Molly

[alieh]

Hi HeidiHi and Claribel. I posted on Linzkg's thread, but just a quick summary. I was in the same situation. I had two ECV attempts that didn't work and tried every other option to turn baby under the sun.

In the end I agreed to book a planned c-section but only after a certain date (in my case, 10 days overdue....I was hoping for a natural breech birth). 10 days overdue came (not a twinge - stubborn breech babe was not budging - not turning and not planning to come out!) and I had my planned c-section and it was a lovely experience, though not what I hoped for. I was adamant about not letting them book me in for a section at 38 weeks just because they wanted the convenience of scheduling their surgeries. So maybe you can choose a date where you are happy to go with a planned section and then if you end up there, make it as pleasant as possible? We had a birth plan for the c-section, which included having the curtain pulled down so we could see him be delivered, playing our own playlist on the IPOD, etc., etc. Though I wish I could have had my water home birth, I feel like I tried every possible thing to avoid the c-section and when it was inevitable, I feel like I at least had some control over it.

Word of warning...my breech baby was stubborn in the womb and is no less so now that he's a bouncing, bubbly 7 month old! He is a handful already.

[sillywoman]

Some lovely advice here, but it would seem that an elective cs is not such a straightforward decision for Heidihi as it was for Helena H due to the added complication of her skin condition. Definitely a decision that needs some sound professional advice and careful thought. Hats off to you Heidihi for getting as much information as you can on which to base your decision.

Incidentally, I would like to add that each birth is it's own experience. Whilst it's lovely to hear different stories of different kinds of births it's not always helpful to generalise negatively about 'friends' who didn't have such good experiences regarding one kind of birth. I'm sure every midwife can point you to women who've had straightforward, vaginal births (breech and cephalic), planned Caesareans, and emergency Caesarean sections all of whom had good experiences (and likewise with the not-so good). If you keep an open mind then emergency c/s doesn't have to be traumatic, it's just 'plan B'.

Good luck and god bless Heidihi & Claribel. I'm off on my hols today, will look forward to hearing about your beautiful babies (whichever way they get out!) when I get back.

[Moos]

I ended up having an emergency c-section in the expert care of the midwives and surgical team at King's and felt very competently looked after. By definition it wasn't what we planned but our son was happy and healthy from the word go, and all went well. Happy to provide details by PM if of interest or if it would be reassuring.

[helena handbasket]

Sillywoman I did not make a judgement either way. I did not generalize negatively, these are people who have shared their experiences with me and that is THEIR assessment of the outcome. In no way way am I trying to diminish any mother's story, I agree that all are special, but someone asked for information. My advice was not to scare people, but if you need to make a decision to understand that there are as many kinds of c-sections as there are vaginal births and it doesn't have to be as surgical and scary as people think. And like most people, I consider the experiences of friends to be parts of the puzzle. I feel for anyone having to make this decision.

How on earth can you make a statement that my decision was straightforward? Who is the one making generalizations here?

[sillywoman]

Sorry Helena H, should have put "as straightforward . . .as it seemed to be . . ", apologies.

Really need to pack now. EDF sooo addictive!

[linzkg]

Just to add - Sillywoman - my midwife was definitely in support of a natural breech birth.

The point i was trying to make is that i was all for a natural home water birth and would have done pretty much anything to ensure that - including going for a breech.

In my case the size was undetected by a long way off, that and the fact that the cord was wrapped tightly, I ended up at home delivering a still born!! (and no there was no problems with his shoulders at all and yes we were both constantly monitored and all seemed ok.)

I totally appreciate i got unlucky and probably a once off and do not want to scare anyone off as child birth is obviously the most amazing thing ever, and to have it confidently in the comfort of your own home is even more special - BUT - i'd hate anyone to have to go through what i went through .. so I just wanted to say to heidi to make sure she was confident the size was reasonable (mind you that would go for any birth hey!)

I had my doubts but at my 41 plus 4 days scan the doctor fobbed me off and told me to go home - I just wish I'd followed my gut more and persisted as I should have been in hospital at least, even better probably a planned c-section .. and instead here I sit in constant worry while I wait to see what, if any, long term damage there is to my boy. (obviously I think he's perfect and no way is there any damage ;-)