Gone.. everything is gone!!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Reading the story about how people who bought some books (Orwell, ironically enough) on Amazon's kindle store only to have Amazon remove the books from their own, personal reader (even tho they had paid for it) last week got me thinking about how many people have

All of their music

All of their photos

Important documents and spredsheets

Whatever else

all stored in the cloud, and the cloud alone (ie iTunes, Flickr, Google etc etc)

What if one day all of those companies disappeared and you no longer had access to any of your stuff - do you have backup plans?

[mockney piers]

All my iPod stuff is ripped from my own CDs to MP3 at max frequency/bit rate.

Photos are all on an external hard drive that bit by bit backing up to DVD.

I've only bought about 2 songs from iTunes. For starters I want all the soft copies of music to be completely transferrable to any environment and secondly the sound quality from downloads is truly dreadful, it sounds like it's being played on a paper and comb. My MP3s are far from perfect but at least they have a bit of life about them.

There's a chap here who thinks the cloud is the future of all technolfy, that we no longer need to think about implementation just the APIs for the middle

tier. But it's nonsense, Reading an article yesterday about azure (microsofts cloud implementaton) and SDS and it soon becomes obvious that the cloud isn't some distributed computing miracle but huge infrastructure owned by the likes of Microsoft, google and errrrr that's it.

Are you happy for them to own everything? (did you know that any photo uploaded to facebook becomes the intellectual property of Facebook Inc, it's there in the terms)

god I'm boring

[????]

All in a sock under my bed

[Ted Max]

Let's back up a bit (sardonic clap) - Important spreadsheets?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Obviously I'm coming from the same place as you Piers (even if you soudn like you are scolding me!)

I think the cloud is very useful, as long as people are aware of the limitations and issues around it - but I'm not sure many people are. A lot of this is happening "just because" and I don't think "we" are ready for the implications fown the road

[Moos]

Sean, I think you're right but this is a change in the medium, not a change in the thinking. How many people put their photos in albums (even when photos were principally physical things) or keep their receipts or remember where they put their passport?

[Ted Max]

The answer, Sean, is that most people are not Mockney, and have not backed things up onto external drives and DVDs. Most people have some photos on their desktop, some on their laptop (because that's what they happened to have to hand when the camera memory got full), and some on their phone memory card, that they have forgotten about. Most people, if they have dabbled in internet services, have their pictures on Google, a few Twitpics, perhaps a languishing Picasa or Flickr account. Never mind back-up, this is already dead content.

Clearly there is a business case out there for a mega-backup storage aggregator. An alternative cloud to the cloud. This would be a host of triple-AAA rated, government backed, server farms, buried 25 miles below the Finnish tundra, staffed only by ex-Symbian developers called Jyrki. In fact I'm going to write the business plan now.

[Moos]

....and the details would never be sold to marketing companies, never.

[Ted Max]

This is where the Jyrkis come in. They hate the marketeers, because of what they did to their WAP portal dreams in 2002. They'll guard customer details with the rigour of Michael P eyeing the last naan in the basket.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Of course when I say I'm WITH Mockney, I don't mean I'm as pro-active as him. Backups I have none - but I won't scream blue murder if teh worst happens - I'll know it'll be my fault

[????]

In the old days it was just the same if say you had a fire or burst water tank or your records/cds knicked, in fact in may ways it was worse (no back up available)

As it happens, me, orobably the most technically illiterate person on this forum - do back up my desktop's hard drive monthly on a seperate hard disk. And load a selection of my digital photos onto Facebook 'just in case' and have all my CDs upstairs and only download a bit of music any case.

er...I'm with Ted on the spreadsheets Sean...but maybe when I get my betfair trading bot built I'll feel differently

[Moos]

Sheesh, never cross posts with the Max. You'll just be ignored. (6)

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's happened to me too Moos, me too

I can confidently say that I have no important spreadsheets. On my own hard disc or in the cloud

But one thing that differs from, say, quids fire example is the reason I'm asing the question. It wouldn't affect just you or me.. but millions of people simultaneously, with attendant outrage and, well... anything else?

[Ted Max]

On a more serous note, I think you have raised a good point, Sean. Another one is the implications for the mobile networks. Consumers will expect broadband access to the cloud wherever and whenever (and not just high-rolling kings of the universe like Mr Ben).

But at the moment even 3G coverage in the UK, for instance, is severely limited geographically. The network operators just don't have the money to build 5x 99% geo HSDPA coverage. So they agitate for more spectrum in the digital dividend band - which allows them to provide much wider coverage. Or will there be one shared "national" network provided as a social utility - with deeper layers of capacity provided on top by the different operators?

At the moment, although mobile data usage is exploding, revenues are not rising accordingly for operators. So where's their incentive to build these ubiquitous networks? The only one is to have some slice of the services action, yet the Facebooks, Googles and Flickrs are already there - and free at the point of use.

So who will pay?

[HonaloochieB]

Anyone heard from Moos lately?

[????]

wikinomics has got a lot to answer for....

[SeanMacGabhann]

Good points Ted - but even if the telcos built an awesomely specced network, teh problem of who owns what and how to get at "it" (and in the not too distant future, "it" could be more important things than photos and mp3s) in the event of a company going under, or a company deciding to just withdraw service

Google Video subscriptions weren't huge so there wasn't a major outcry but they told everyone who had bought content from them that, overnight, they no longer had the rights to own, or play those videos..

[SeanMacGabhann]

not read it quids

[Ted Max]

Quids, if you are backing up monthly to external drive then I would hazard you that you are already in about the top 1% of data-savvy people.

I've seen some stats around consumer behaviour on this. Most people are completely stuffed for something as important as contact info when they lose their phone, for instance. How many times have you seen that "I've lost my mobile can you all send me your numbers" email?

I've always been amazed that mobile operators don't offer back up and restore services for contact and content as standard. Would make people much less likely to churn when they lose their phone, or drop it down the lavvy.

Sean, in the event of the collapse you envisage - you think there would be government-backed rescue plans, like the banks, to recover people's email, picture, social network, accounts?

[Jeremy]

What happens when we run out of fuels and there's no more electricity?

What happens when energy companies go bankrupt and they can't afford to fix their 3 billion North Sea wind turbines?

What happens when sea levels rise and all our homes are underwater, and the only survivors are living a tribal existence on high ground?

What happens when the world is gripped by a virus turning us all into zombies?

What happens when the cats and dogs decide to rebel?

[SeanMacGabhann]

clearly not Ted

I'm just basically saying people are entrusting a lot of details to someone who has the ability to prevent the same people accessing same - and I wish people were more "aware" generally

Many are the same people who will complain about Government ID cards for example

[Huguenot]

Good points all, Jezza. My curtains are looking at me funny.

[????]

I don't think it's being Data-savvy I just have a nature for caution, infact it is my fear of technology which means that I do all these things!...eg always a full structural survey, properly insured,

Probably why I never worry about my gambling as it's all calculated within my means risk!

[Ted Max]

I'm just basically saying people are entrusting a lot of details to someone who has the ability to prevent the same people accessing same - and I wish people were more "aware" generally

I'm agreeing. It doesn't look like it, but I am.

[cdonline]

Unless I owned my own business, it would probably vex me for a little while but that's all.

I don't have the same relationship with data as I do with my real stuff, cds, dvds, photos, books I've read, momentos and things I collect. They're tactile and are around me and I'd be sad to lose them.

I have an external drive, mainly because I've downloaded so much shit over the years. Quite a lot of it, I've never watched or listened to and probably never will. I mean how many times can you watch that classic film, Fool's Gold.