Infant Potty Training

[budur]

Just as a discussion point I am wondering if anyone starts potty training earlier than from 2 years old which seems to be the average age in the UK. I started at 6 months after a lecture from pediatrician back home (ignoring mum's complaints until then). I'm so glad that I did. Since that time (and baby is a year now) she hardly had any poos in the nappy (it's ok when she was breasfed, but once on solids it's really not pleasant). Once babies are on solids, its so easy to recognise when they are doing a poo. I bought a big potty like a chair with a back that she can lean on and started putting her on it after naps, about 15 min after milk, after proper meals, before going out and after coming back home from a walk. She couldn't sit properly by then so I was holding her and she quickly learned to do everything in the potty. When out and about I just hold her above the loo. I am not paranoid about missing a pee, if she does it, not a big deal, but i do change the nappy straight away, so it's always dry. Sometimes she goes through a few a day, sometimes the same one from morning till evening. But I always do catch a poo, and she does about 2-3 a day, just put her on a potty after a meal and if I can see her straining ready to do one. It really surprises me when I see mums with 1.5 - 2 year olds watching their kids doing a poo in their nappy and then taking them to the toilet to change. Isn't it much easier to take them to the loo straight away so that they can relieve themselves in the toilet and there would be nothing to clean up afterwards. And I'm very active: I go to cafes, parks, visiting friends, taking tubes, trains, buses and we've been on long haul flights a number of times with her and it still works. My hubby is not as good with this but he also knows when to put her on a potty and give her toys that we have nearby, he can't hold her over a loo properly. She's now a year old and knows exactly what potty is for: she'll wriggle and stand up if she doesn't want to do anything or sits on it playing happily and we know that she'll do a pee or a poo. The best use of this was probably on the beach: in a hot weather I just didn't want even to think how it feels to be in a nappy so we put little cotton panties on her and held her for a pee from time to time. Would be interesting to hear different views. I know that it's much easier to leave this until the child is much older, but would be good to know if anyone would like to or did start potty training early.

[Fuschia]

Elimination communication it's called, isn't it?

I do know a few people who have done it, with varying degress of success depending on how much effort tbey put into it, I think.

Well done! Must save a lot of expense, mess, washing or landfill!

[Polmoche]

Most of the developing world does this. Nappies have made us lazy (myself included). Plus not practical if your child has to go to a nursery or is with a nanny/childminder.

[The Nappy Lady]

I think the theory is great, but it really does depend on both the parent and the child.

Not practical for those who are going back to work and leaving baby with a nursery or childminder, and not so practical for those who are out and about a lot (I note it has worked for you), but I'm not sure all parents would cope with the level of attention required to 'catch' the baby at the right moments. My 9 month old is really sneaky with her poos, I do see her doing them sometimes, but often really don't notice until afterwards, so I have to check her nappy regularly, and especially when I think one is 'due'. Very different from her big sister - I always knew when she was doing one.

It is interesting, and maybe I will try sitting her on a potty or holding her over the loo next time, but I have to say I can't imagine her staying on it long enough to do anything as she's so mobile now....will be interesting to find out (and hopefully not too messy)!!

I firmly believe babies are much cleverer than we ever give them credit for, so I guess anything is possible!

Molly

[minder]

Hi - this could work I suppose if you are hovering after your baby every half hour but I don't think it's potty training as such.

It might work for a while but then baby would regress and it would be much harder work at 2 and a half/3 years old.

[Moos]

Polmoche Wrote:

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> Most of the developing world does this.

But I bet if you asked it, the developing world would say lots of nappies, unlimited hot water and clean sanitary conditions? Oh, yes please.

[chantelle]

i have one question - after you've held them over the toilet, isn't it a bit difficult to wipe their bum from there? or do you then move over to a changing mat in a public loo or whatever?

[bee74]

Hello everyone

interesting discussion. My son has just turned 7 months and for the last month he has only done two poos in the nappy, the rest on the potty. I initially put him first thing in the morning on the potty and made pooing/straining noises myself till he got what i was on about. Now i don't need to anymore. I put him on the potty at almost every nappy change and also allow him lots of nappy free time (especially now, the weather is warmer!). I am not obsessed with evacuation communication. It's just how it turned out. I just feel that personally, if i myself were 7 months old, i would rather not sit in my poo for very long or not at all... It is working out ok, but i try not to put pressure on my son to do it 'right.' If he goes in the nappy, that's great too. As long as he is comfortable. I don't know how it will pan out, but i suspect that he is already learning that it's better to poo and wee on a potty than in his nappy.

If you are interested in EC there is a group which meets in London every month. Not sure of details, but i bet you can google it.

B

[Keef]

Moos Wrote:

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> Polmoche Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Most of the developing world does this.

>

> But I bet if you asked it, the developing world

> would say lots of nappies, unlimited hot water and

> clean sanitary conditions? Oh, yes please.

Ha ha, spot on Moos!

I met some woman recently who was telling us she'd bought a potty for her 10 week old (seriously!) and I had to walk out the room with my fist in my mouth, leaving poor Mrs Keef to stand nodding trying to look interested without laughing.

Sorry, but isn't there enough to do?

NOTE: I know this thread isn't about kids that young, but just thought it was funny. She also tried showing us all the things her baby could do when prompted (many many times)... Give me strength.

[KateMontero]

I do believe that babies that young might learn to poo in a potty but I struggle to imagine how I could fit that much "holding over a potty" time into my day. And it's so structured as well - something my baby hasn;t adapted to at all!

And even if I could, I have to ask, is it worth it when kids will eventually, some sooner and some later, become potty trained anyway?

Just thinking out loud. I do know someone who tried this but it hasn't worked for her at all and she put so much effort in right from the start...

[redjam]

I'm on the lazy side on this debate, I'm afraid. My eldest daughter potty-trained at 2 years and 3 months - it only took a long weekend and she'd cracked it; we had a couple of weeks of occasional accidents then that was about it. I'm sure we could have got her to do it earlier but it was so much easier to train when she was 'ready' rather than all the endless holding over potties that the OP describes. Besides I HATE potties - cleaning them out is revolting. Whereas with disposable nappies you can just whisk it all away, roll it up, then stick it the bin so it ends up on a landfill for 1000 years. Oh. That's not good apparently. But so convenient, no?

[Polmoche]

Actually, not everyone in developing countries is dirt poor and some gasp! have access to nappies etc. They just CHOOSE to do things the old way. I have seen it myself, babies potty trained at a year old. But yes, the mother has to be with the child all the time, day and night.

[alethea]

Why is it that there is so much guilt and feeling inadequate involved in having children these days, from the beginning you are made to feel that you are doing things wrong,

why do they not sleep through the night at 10 weeks

why do they not eat everything you put on their plate

why so they not talk as much as their peers

is it better to breast feed or bottle

having a natural birth versus a c-section

is your child potty trained at 10 weeks, 1yr or 2yr or 3

is sending your baby to nursery a bad thing

did you do the nct or the nhs sessions

the list is endless, I'm sorry if this comes across as a rant, but I read so many things and sometimes I just feel that I'm a bit of a crap mum because I might not be doing things the right way.

[nicolemodesti]

Ah Alethea....what is the right or wrong way???? I'm still trying to work that one out but know that I have a happy, contented, beautiful boy!! Surely that's the main point and I'm sure you are doing everything in the way you feel comfortable with and certainly not a 'crap mum'.

[Fuschia]

I think it's possible to do things one way but still admire others who do it a different way.. i think the idea of EC is fascinating, and hats off to those who pracrice it.. it certainly saves adding to the nappy mountain! For me personally, being back at work,since 7m and having two babies... breastfeeding is the thing I made my priority. But i don't feel guilty about the stuff I don't do.. we all do our best don't we?

x

PS When it comes to actual potty training, I am in the "No hurry, do it when they're ready" camp. But EC for babies is a while different philosophy.. as I say.. fascinating!

[alethea]

Exactly that is precisely the point, as long as I can give my son a safe and loving environment that is the most important, but there are sooooo many different ways of doing things that it's confusing without always taking into account individual circumstances.

[Keef]

Why is it that there is so much guilt and feeling inadequate involved in having children these days, from the beginning you are made to feel that you are doing things wrong,

why do they not sleep through the night at 10 weeks

why do they not eat everything you put on their plate

why so they not talk as much as their peers

is it better to breast feed or bottle

having a natural birth versus a c-section

is your child potty trained at 10 weeks, 1yr or 2yr or 3

is sending your baby to nursery a bad thing

did you do the nct or the nhs sessions

the list is endless, I'm sorry if this comes across as a rant, but I read so many things and sometimes I just feel that I'm a bit of a crap mum because I might not be doing things the right way.

Spot on Alethea! I truly think that some people do all this stuff, not so much for the good of their child, but so they can congratulate themselves, and show off at NCT meetings!

The OP says

I know that it's much easier to leave this until the child is much older

Thus showing how commited they are, yet also says

she hardly had any poos in the nappy (it's ok when she was breasfed, but once on solids it's really not pleasant)

Which suggests to me that they got more out of it than baby.

I respect everyone's right to do what they think is best with their kids, but frankly, I want my daughter to just enjoy being a baby, and do things in HER own time, not when I think she should in order to impress my friends!

Sorry if this appears to attack the OP, it's really not meant in that way, but I am sick already of people seeming to compete about what their babies are doing. I just tell them my daughter is miles ahead of any of them and leave.

[Fuschia]

I think people are rather over-reacting!

Elimination communication is a natural form of toileting... no doubt what primitive peoples did in the days before nappies... and while it's clearly not for everybody, it's quite a valid way of dealing with baby waste products... and just because the Op explained what she was doing and asked "Would be interesting to hear different views. I know that it's much easier to leave this until the child is much older, but would be good to know if anyone would like to or did start potty training early.", I don't see why people have to jump on her as if she's started some sort of early potty training competition! I didn't read her post in that way at all.

Keef even says "I truly think that some people do all this stuff, not so much for the good of their child, but so they can congratulate themselves, and show off at NCT meetings!" I think that's very harsh. Keef.

Chill, guys.

[Keef]

I also said

I respect everyone's right to do what they think is best with their kids

AND

Sorry if this appears to attack the OP, it's really not meant in that way

Perhaps I should have started a new thread rather than posting on this one, but my point was a general one, it just seemed to fit in this thread after alethea's point.

Didn't mean to sound harsh, was just giving my opinion, which is basically that this "Elimination communication" (please) is a waste of time.

I know this is how things would have been done before nappies (before potties too), but that is because nappies didn't exist. They exist now, and I see no harm in using them until a child is ready to easily make the transition. People used to eat with thier hands, because knives and forks didn't exist, but I think I'll stick to using them now that they're available.

By the time they're big enough to give a sh!t (excuse the pun), I'm sure it will make absolutely no difference to the child how they were potty trained.

[antijen]

I found it interesting to hear of someone conciously potty training, my first child often went without his nappy (often due to no money) it definitely made him aware of when he needed but apart from a potty being there I didnt think of it as potty training. He was off all nappies before he was two as was his brother (13months diffrence), who followed the eldest, I cant remember how old exactly. I agree fuschia we should be celebrating diffrences instead of immediatley feeling insecure when people do things diffrently from us.

[The Nappy Lady]

Interesting to see such strong opinions on here. IObviously in my 'professional' (ha, not sure you can really call it that) role as a Nappy Lady advisor I get asked about EC fairly regularly.

Our general advice has always been that it can work, but is really more suited to cultures where the baby is carried around on Mum's hip 24/7, and there is ready access to a toilet (or if it comes to it a hole in the dirt)....more difficult for parents who are likely to be wanting to be out and about at various coffee mornings etc. and also as I said before returning to work when baby is under 12 months, or even 2 years old. I know far more people who try and give up, than those that stick with it.

Of course I am biased, but I am really happy using my cloth nappies, my baby is changed immediately after a poo (9 times out of 10 at least, I admit I miss the odd one!), and with No. 1 I didn't feel in any rush to potty train but it happened easily and naturally at 24 months - I could have pushed and done it sooner, but I felt no need to. I know loads of people think cloth nappies are a real hassle, but I reckon EC would be a whole lot more. On the disposable front, apart from the landfill issue I really dislike the chemical smell of them, and also the way babies look like they have a cod piece on when the gels swell up...but that is a whole other debate...if the choice was disposables or EC I'd be trying EC, but while I have the cloth nappy option I will take that instead!

Molly

[budur]

Didn't expect to generate such strong opinions, why do mums always think it's about who is doing what better? whatever works for your child is great. Good point on childminders/nurseries, they wouldn't do it. I'm actually back at work full time, but lucky to have a relative looking after the baby for a bit. Her kids grew up without any nappies whatsoever, so she is completely in tune with me regarding EC. I'm planning to send her to the nursery at 18 months if all goes well and specifically asked during the nursery tour if they had any kids who are potty trained at 18 months, they said yes, few are. There's still 6 months to go, so will keep you posted whether this will work in the nursery or not. Don't think she'll be potty trained in the conventional way by then (pulling pants and putting them back herself) but hopefully she can tell/communicate with nursery staff when she wants to go.

It's just a cultural thing, you guys grew up in UK thinking starting from around 2 is the right thing to do. I came from a culture where nappies only appeared about 10 years ago due to globalisation. Doctors still believe that starting as early as possible is best for the child as this is one of the reflexes that babies are born with (remember when baby is born she often pees or poos when you take the nappy off? because they are born not to do this under themselves, they are already pretty smart) and should be developed, not ignored and then tried to be revived again later. And when they start telling you that there's a higher rate of girls having cistitus because of the contact with urine and the poo getting into the front part is not good at all... it really makes you think and try to start the process earlier. I do it because i think it's nice for my girl's skin not to have any contact with the poo as it all goes in a potty or toilet and there's nothing to wipe afterwards. But it's not perfect, she peed on me today when i held her on my lap when i got back from work, we both were too excited to see each other. No fuss, it's not supposed to be perfect, but she had a couple of hours of nappy free time in the afternoon. It's interesting that Tracy Hoggs (the Baby whisperer) in her latest book recommends starting at 9 months when baby can sit properly on the potty, although she admits she was all for the conventional way before too. I personally think that starting earlier than 6 is better when they are not mobile (your point Molly about baby moving around too much) and can get used to the idea with less fuss and the instinct is much easier to get back. anyway, was great to hear all the opinions and I'm sure every mum knows best what's good for her child and makes her life easier too be it early potty training or late one.

[macroban]

> It's just a cultural thing, you guys grew up in UK thinking starting from around 2 is the right thing to do.

If so, only for the younger generations. In the 1950s you got worried if your child wasn't "clean" by 15 months.

[The Nappy Lady]

Very true Macroban, and again it is cultural - down to Mum's being at home with their babies full time and therefore able to potty train sooner, and also (dare I say it) cloth nappies helping the children to make the necessary connections sooner....my Mum had 6 of us, all in Terry Squares, and we were all potty trained by 2 at the latest (boys slower than girls of course).

Feeling of a full bladder = feeling of release of bladder = Wet nappy

It is why a lot of parents these days feel 'under pressure' from the Grandmothers about potty training, I don't think the Grandmothers mean any harm, it is simply that back in their day as you say it was considered very odd if you had a child in nappies at 18 months old.

I have the odd customer come to me desperate to potty train a child of 3 years plus and asking about switching to cloth....no point at that stage, but often a flannel inside a disposable will help the child to work out what is happening, and what they need to start doing.

Budur, I find your experience very interesting and would love to hear and update once your little girl is at nursery. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Molly

[The Nappy Lady]

Hi Budur, just wondering how you are getting on 6 months down the line?

Molly