Private vs State education (Primary level).

[Otto]

oh - and - as far as diversity issues go, the private school had more people from different ethnicities than the state...and we found that pretty rewarding as far as learning about other cultures, etc...

[Keef]

Only thing I'd like to add, is that I wouldn't pay that much attention to an ofsted report, they're a load of rubbish IMO.

[Sqiggles]

The most difficult decision that we have to make as parents is to try to work out what is best for our children.

If you can afford private school, then it is an option that you have to consider, even if only to reject it. My views have changed since I had children. Before I would have been worried about whether it was fair - now as a parent I know that I want to do what is best for my child, whatever that may be, and even if it is unfair.

The thing that I find most difficult is making sure that I am looking at what is in their best interests. Is a child better off just "being 6" and playing, or is he or she better if they are being pushed academically? I think that that depends on the child's personality as much as their ability. Some children need to be kept fully occupied, engaged and challenged, whereas others are better being left to grow at their own speed. I find it is easy to find that I am applying my own ideas of what is best generally, rather than looking at the child's interest.

But I also find this difficult if that means different answers for different siblings. My siblings and I had a variety of types of education, and there is still a great deal of bad feeling about who got the better oppotunities - "It's not fair" is still alive and well, 30 years on!

So, I would say judge each child as a separate person, and work out what would suit them best (ignoring any inbuilt prejudices), but if that means taking different decisions for different siblings then be prepared to justify the decisions you made for the next 40+ years!

[alib]

I'm starting to think about schools for my little girl and I find this thread alarming. I had to go back up more than once and read the original post.

FCD is very, very happy at her school (not just one very! Two!) and has similarly able peers. FC is 'absolutely sure' that the school will endeavour to respond to the Ofsted report. I would be delighted to be in your position two years down the line.

It sounds like FC and FCD both have a good relationship with the school and so it would be such a shame to take a potentially G&T child out of the school when you trust it will be trying its best to improve. Isn't the desertion of such pupils part of the state school "problem"? FCD could have a brilliant future there. I agree with the poster who said there is plenty you can do at home to augment learning you fear could be deficient (I don't mean extra-tutoring, but pets, travel, community action etc). I too felt that school was a doddle, and though I know I still feel the impact of that attitude today (why else would I be on the internet when I should be working??) I believe that was less to do with the school and more to do with my unengaged parents.

[Moos]

Seems this is a topical discussion: "Glass Ceiling for top jobs"

[womanofdulwich]

sqiggles

some children need to be kept fully occupied, engaged and challenged, whereas others are better being left to grow at their own speed.

bit late in day for me - but how do you decide what type you have? i have never understood this!???

[Sqiggles]

Well, all I know is that I have one child who thrives on tests, a very full timetable, and a very structured day - and another who does not see the point of any of that. Both seem to learn, but they do it in their own way. Child one thrives in the more pressurised environment where they have to work very hard to keep up, and know it when they are falling behind - indeed, I fear that the energy would be channelled in a less positive way without the very full day. Child 2 would react badly to all of that, and prefers to move at their own speed, in a more mixed ability environment. Both are motivated children in different ways - the way that you get the best out of them is different.

But maybe I am usual in having such different children (although I doubt it).

[anna75]

"Given the privileges a private education gives, I can't see why people who can afford it and aren't opposed in principle, end up with their children in the state sector?"

Fuschia posted the above and I think it is a very decent point of view...

It is very clear to me - any money I have will go on my children's education. End of story. I have 2 not 3 as we could not have afforded 3 sets of school fees. I have no understanding of parents who have the money but choose state education (in the absence of the principle F above refers to, obviously).

[KatsuQueen]

Hi fruitcake, MiniKatsu is only a year old but it has cropped up in conversation before. If I could afford it, I would definitely send him to private school. Why not? I think that schooling is only a part of a child's upbringing. If you can afford to send a child to private school, then you will undoubtedly also have money to have nicer holidays, live in a more comfortable home and be able to take him/her to museums, the theatre and other cultural experiences. I'm not saying that people who send their children to state school are deprived (I'll be one of them) BUT money opens lots of doors and gives you lots of choice, education is only one of those choices.

I'm not originally from the UK and I just don't understand the guilt associated with private education. Would you feel guilty about living in a 5 bed house with a nice garden, where your children had lots of space to play and be creative? WOuld you feel guilty about taking your children to restaurants and on lots of holidays? All of those would add to your children's confidence (let's be realistic) in general.

And besides, unpleasant people are evenly spread throughout all strata of society! YOu can find arrogant people anywhere, regardless of background.

[Pecanpie]

A good friend has just gone from working in state schools to private and she says now that she has seen the difference she would do anything to send her child private. 'sigh'

[anna75]

You can't - you give them the best and widest education you possibly can to enable any abilities they have to come through. YOu don't need to choose a pressurised independent school btw. There are plenty of relaxed ones where academic learning is not the be all and end all. (As can be seen from the league tables quite clearly. Alleyns doesn't do all that brilliantly for exmaple...)

[goosemum]

We chose state schools over private so that our children could learn alongside the children they meet in the local community. Our view is that learning social skills at primary level is equally if not more important than academic skills (at this young age).

It's a different point of view and I don't believe that either is right or wrong!

[sillywoman]

Very sound principle goosemum. :)

[Mellors]

Unless you fall outside catchment for all your local schools and end up getting sent miles away as happened last year ;)

[Bumpkin]

Goosemum - I think that's a very important point as from what I can see at work, being able to socialise / network is just as important if not more than your academic skills in getting ahead if that's what you want from life. Let alone the benefit of having good friends that live close by. I went to a local primary and was very happy with loads of friends within close walking distance. I then went to a private secondary that undoubtably provided a good education, but there was a strong focus on spending all hours outside school doing loads of homework and the friends I made there all lived driving distance away. Looking back, I'm not sure that spending less time on academic things and more time nurturing friendships outside of school wouldn't have been a better thing all round.

[arriety]

If equality of opportunity is a good thing, and all children should be given the same chances in life, how can private education be a good thing? it seems to me that the more engaged parents would be better off sticking with the state schools and helping to bring the standards up for all. Best thing that could happen to this country is the abolition of any private education, and an increase in the standards and provision of state education. Saying that though i completely understand why parents choose private schools, because it is after all impossible not to put your own children's needs as a priority. Complicated issue.

[Keef]

it seems to me that the more engaged parents would be better off sticking with the state schools and helping to bring the standards up for all.

Your post is lovely, and spot on. However, the above will never happen, because the sort of people who can afford private education, tend to be able to afford things because they're not the most altruistic types in the world.

[Smiler]

I had a miserable time in "good" state primary schools (where other kids and some of the teachers seemed to be actively hostile to more academically-able pupils) and a much better time in an "average" secondary. My husband (whose parents were in the forces) had a state primary education which was disrupted by frequent moves and a private secondary boarding-school education, which he enjoyed. We both got good exam results, friendships and good jobs etc. We have been arguing about state vs private education for many years!

We are now hoping to be able to go private for our daughter because of the benefits that others have mentioned. I have niggling doubts and middle-class angst about this, but not enough to overcome the selfish desire for "the best" education for our child.

I do think, though, that at primary stage especially being happy at school is the main thing.

Re. Arriety's point, many parents are not that altruistic, including those who send their children to state schools but who do everything they can (e.g. move house to a different catchement area or another place, or to an area with selective state schools) to get into "good" schools. Disagree with Keef: gross generalisation.

[Belle]

To be honest these days the thing that really is a deal-breaker for me with private education is the cost. There's no way I can ever imagine being able to afford it - or if we ever can, then it's goodbye to a LOT of other things. not sure I'd feel happy about sending my son to school where everyone goes on foreign holidays and he can't afford to etc.

[Keef]

Disagree with Keef: gross generalisation

Was it? Of course not everyone is the same, and I was generalising, but I stand by my point that very few people are going to sign up to funding towards state education for the benefit of everyone because they can afford to, rather than just making sure that their own child gets the best.

The rights and wrongs of that are not for me to judge, but I don't think I'm wrong.

[woofmarkthedog]

Ok...

I have done both & have myself been educated at both

For me here & now it's easy, my boys are in an excellent state school, ofsted "outstanding" rather than an OK prep

I can't & won't afford it anymore however, it is different at a state school socially. Though like fall in with like , you find your group that fits or your kids do. Trust me the good schools are run by the middle class & motivated parents, there's plenty of lawyers, academics & professionals that don't send their children to private schools

My boys both speak well & are very polite, mostly because we pull them up along the way. They both read very well are in the top groups at school but we read with them when they come home & chase the home work. No TV in the week but music, drawing , piano, guitars. No computer games, mobile phones

I think it's how much work & effort you put in with your chosen school that counts, if you want posh friends join the rugby club at Beckenham, the football at Dulwich college sports grounds.

If you want to let you kids go balastic on blue & yellow sweets go to Gambardos

Take your choice, but the best work is done at home

Good luck though

W**F

[Smiler]

Unfortunately, not all the state schools in Southwark are (according to Ofsted) "outstanding" or even "satisfactory".

[woofmarkthedog]

No...

Thing is neither was ours at first

Though there have been good progressive improvements since

Parent power does help

W**F

[Earl Aelfheah]

arriety Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If equality of opportunity is a good thing, and

> all children should be given the same chances in

> life, how can private education be a good thing?

> it seems to me that the more engaged parents would

> be better off sticking with the state schools and

> helping to bring the standards up for all. Best

> thing that could happen to this country is the

> abolition of any private education, and an

> increase in the standards and provision of state

> education. Saying that though i completely

> understand why parents choose private schools,

> because it is after all impossible not to put your

> own children's needs as a priority. Complicated

> issue.

I couldn't agree more. Clearly parents want the best education possible for their own children, but surely they also want the best civil society for them to? Individuals will act to give in their children's best interest. This is as it should be, but it is for this reason that government should show leadership and intervene, in the wider interest. If independent schools were outlawed tomorrow then you would see massive social changes which, overall, would see everyone better off.

[Smiler]

Nice ideal, not going to happen though.