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Labour Leadership

Otta

By Otta
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Jah Lush

Jah Lush

Posted
Posted

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quite (although to be fair Portillo is on the

> moderate/sensible side of the Tories)


Are you kidding? He was considered the 'darling of the right' when he was in office. A total Thatcherite in every way.

Jah Lush

Jah Lush

Posted
Posted

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yes. But like most of us he's gotten sensible with

> old age and not stuck dogmatically to the beliefs

> he had in the 80s....like say...oh you fill in the

> gaps.


Joseph Goebbels, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Heinrich Himmler?

Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I used to like the Spitting Image Portillo who'd come smashing through the wall of a cabinet meeting in his tank.



But yeah, he was saying again last night that he thinks Trident is a total waste and that he'd rather reinvest the ?100bln on weapons that we might actually need.


Personally I'd use a portion of it for defence equipment (sweeten up the armed forces) and use a bigger portion for other stuff (like housing).





On a broader note, I am almost wishing this whole thing would be over sooner rather than later. My father in law is an old skool lefty, who probably shares Corbyn's values on many things (not all). And yet he put him last when he voted for the leadership because he remembers the past and said that it would just be a brutal tearing apart by the media establishment.


He was spot on. Corbyn stands absolutely no chance as long as this CONSTANT media storm carries on. And it will carry on. Frankly he could start spoting the sort of stuff that would please the most moderate of Tories and he's still be slaughtered. This man will just not be allowed to win. Some moron on Question Time was suggesting he should be charged with treason. That is the sort of person that gets a vote in this country.

Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I predict that in a reasonably short time, Coybyn will be out, a new media savvy soundbyte spouting leader will be in place. Everyone that thought politics might be worth taking an interest in again will once again be disillusioned and turn away.


I've said before that I've never really thought of JC was a future PM. But I had really really hoped there would be a chance to have some grown up debate and for people to be listened to a bit. But the bully boys will never let that happen, and so it will be more of the same old shit.


I feel naive and foolish for ever thinking there might be something different.

Louisa

Louisa

Posted
Posted

I think Corbyn has come along at the right time for the Labour Party. To win back Scotland after the SNP sent a hurricane through the political system back in May, they need to turn back to the left to at least try and re-gain the trust of the traditional left vote. It may work to a degree, maybe it's just too soon, but Labour has no choice but to at least try. Reliance on 'New Labour' a brand which doesn't say much 'new' and is in need of a refresh at the top. Corbyn is a catalyst if you like, he can and will win back some of the core vote over the coming few years, by which time (maybe) the centre of the party will have gotten its act together in time for 2020 (which they might stand a remote chance of winning, but unlikely still at this stage).


Louisa.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yes. But like most of us he's gotten sensible with

> old age and not stuck dogmatically to the beliefs

> he had in the 80s....like say...oh you fill in the

> gaps


The Speaker - John Bercow - I remember him in the 80s

(student politics) before he met his (left wing) wife :)

ratty

ratty

Posted
Posted

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I predict that in a reasonably short time, Coybyn

> will be out, a new media savvy soundbyte spouting

> leader will be in place. Everyone that thought

> politics might be worth taking an interest in

> again will once again be disillusioned and turn

> away.

>

> I've said before that I've never really thought of

> JC was a future PM. But I had really really hoped

> there would be a chance to have some grown up

> debate and for people to be listened to a bit. But

> the bully boys will never let that happen, and so

> it will be more of the same old shit.

>

> I feel naive and foolish for ever thinking there

> might be something different.


Sad isn't it? Perhaps it's time to take the streets again? We did it in the 80s and it ultimately did for Thatcher!

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I predict that in a reasonably short time,

> Coybyn

> > will be out, a new media savvy soundbyte

> spouting

> > leader will be in place. Everyone that thought

> > politics might be worth taking an interest in

> > again will once again be disillusioned and turn

> > away.

> >

> > I've said before that I've never really thought

> of

> > JC was a future PM. But I had really really

> hoped

> > there would be a chance to have some grown up

> > debate and for people to be listened to a bit.

> But

> > the bully boys will never let that happen, and

> so

> > it will be more of the same old shit.

> >

> > I feel naive and foolish for ever thinking

> there

> > might be something different.

>

> Sad isn't it? Perhaps it's time to take the

> streets again? We did it in the 80s and it

> ultimately did for Thatcher!


He's not gone yet - and has a big mandate.


My thoughts that he might not stay are due to him being 70 in 2020.

Love it that loads of the 16-21 year olds support him - and he uses that.

DaveR

DaveR

Posted
Posted

So let me get this right - after Labour lost the election under a moderate left leader, and elected a hard left leader, the problem is that that leader will 'not be allowed to win' because of the 'brutal media'.


That reality check keeps receding further and further into the distance.

Louisa

Louisa

Posted
Posted

Yeah I don't buy that media bogeyman argument either. Labour won't win an election under Corbyn, I think we all know that deep down, especially us oldies. Not because the media don't like him, a small factor perhaps, but because middle England (home owners, small business people, 'mondeo man/woman') don't trust him on the economy when it comes to the crunch. But this doesn't mean he isn't useful in dragging the core vote back from the hands of the SNP and UKIP in the heartlands further north and west.


Louisa.

Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So let me get this right - after Labour lost the

> election under a moderate left leader, and elected

> a hard left leader, the problem is that that

> leader will 'not be allowed to win' because of the

> 'brutal media'.

>

> That reality check keeps receding further and

> further into the distance.



"Not be allowed to win" was a poor choice of words.


"Not be allowed to do anything" would have been better.

????

????

Posted
Posted

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I used to like the Spitting Image Portillo who'd

> come smashing through the wall of a cabinet

> meeting in his tank.

>

>

> But yeah, he was saying again last night that he

> thinks Trident is a total waste and that he'd

> rather reinvest the ?100bln on weapons that we

> might actually need.

>

> Personally I'd use a portion of it for defence

> equipment (sweeten up the armed forces) and use a

> bigger portion for other stuff (like housing).

>

>

>

>

> On a broader note, I am almost wishing this whole

> thing would be over sooner rather than later. My

> father in law is an old skool lefty, who probably

> shares Corbyn's values on many things (not all).

> And yet he put him last when he voted for the

> leadership because he remembers the past and said

> that it would just be a brutal tearing apart by

> the media establishment.

>

> He was spot on. Corbyn stands absolutely no chance

> as long as this CONSTANT media storm carries on.

> And it will carry on. Frankly he could start

> spoting the sort of stuff that would please the

> most moderate of Tories and he's still be

> slaughtered. This man will just not be allowed to

> win. Some moron on Question Time was suggesting he

> should be charged with treason. That is the sort

> of person that gets a vote in this country.



Was Charlotte Church worse than Russell Brand?

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Was Charlotte Church worse than Russell Brand?


Questiontime in Cardiff sounds so insular :)


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/you-can-hear-sound-leaflets-10177729

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news-opinion/how-do-cardiff-question-time-10177437


Leanne Wood "We?re not campaigning for independence.? - only the welsh nationalists can say that

Otta

Otta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Was Charlotte Church worse than Russell Brand?



No



I actually thought she spoke quite well, but said to the wife "it doesn't matter what she says, she'll be slagged off and dismissed".


Brand is just an egomaniac who likes the sound of his own voice. Whether you agree with Charlotte Church or not, I think it's unfair to compare her with Brand.

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

Ridgley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have mixed feelings about this do we really need

> nuclear weapons? On the other hand we need some

> sort of defence against dictators like kim Jong

> Hun and the other despots.



We've got two humongous carriers being finished :)


It's deterrence only with the nukes IMHO.

Jeremy

Jeremy

Posted
Posted

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Quite (although to be fair Portillo is on the

> > moderate/sensible side of the Tories)

>

> Are you kidding? He was considered the 'darling of

> the right' when he was in office. A total

> Thatcherite in every way.


Maybe at one point. When he re-appeared on William Hague's front bench he'd had a bit of a shift and was considered more of a moderate/compassionate Tory. In fact both Hague and Portillo seemed determined to distance themselves from their predecessors. Although hard to say how much was genuine and how much was an attempt to woo the electorate..

JohnL

JohnL

Posted
Posted

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Was Charlotte Church worse than Russell Brand?

>

>

> No

>

>

> I actually thought she spoke quite well, but said

> to the wife "it doesn't matter what she says,

> she'll be slagged off and dismissed".

>

> Brand is just an egomaniac who likes the sound of

> his own voice. Whether you agree with Charlotte

> Church or not, I think it's unfair to compare her

> with Brand.


Charlotte's response on twitter


"Can't say I had a ball on question time, that's not a Cardiff/Welsh audience that I would recognise. However thanks for your support twitter"

Blah Blah

Blah Blah

Posted
Posted

Question Time audiences are notorious for digging up extremes in their attempts to 'reflect a wide section of public views'.


I thought for Question Time, is was a tame one. The panel seems devoid of that 'go for the jugular' MP or journalist that it usually has at least one of :D


On another note, Manchester is about to see a week of protest during the Conservative Party Conference.

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