Gosh, Have to go for ANOTHER scan at Kings!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Good news is my placenta has moved, so no reason why I cannot have a natural birth. Baby is head down too ( well done baby!) the midwife is wrong, I am not measuring two weeks ahead ( I am obviously just storing all the fat hence measuring bigger bump wise).

They have always been worried about the growth of baby since I had my 1st scan, putting my dates later and later. Usually we are meant to have just two scans at Kings, I have had four and I have to go for a fifth one. The sonographer said the baby is measuring 4lbs 9ozs at 33weeks which is meant to be average but she said his growth is not consistent and that there is a reduction in the growth of his AC ( abdominal Circumference) from the 95th Centile to the 50th Centile, whatever that means! She said because I am naturally petite and it is my first baby, it could just mean that I carry small babies and a small baby could be natural and normal for me but as they do not know they want to keep a check on it and they also want to make sure his weight does not drop because he is rather small and they must keep an eye on him.

Her main concern is the reduction from his abdominal, does anyone know what this is meant to be? Obviously I am trying not to worry but I had thought today was be my last time ever being scanned and all I went for was news on my placenta , now there is concern over his reduction. I thought the worrying would stop after 12 weeks of pregnancy but it seems like it is never ending!

[lorraineliyanage]

I wouldn't sweat it too much about the size of the baby, 4lbs 9 oz sounds a good size for the stage you're at. My daughter was 3 lbs 12 at 30 weeks and ended up being 8 pounds 6 at birth. They are quite into scaremongering at Kings for some reason. I was told at 12 weeks my baby might have growth problems and had to have scans up until 30 weeks. I found this scan so frightening that I refused to go back to Kings for any more.

It's not a bad thing to carry a smaller baby - less to squeeze out?!!!? Hopefully someone can shed some more light on this as I have no idea what it means scientifically, but the 50th percentile is a good place to be.

[Keef]

Obviously it's natural to worry, but just try to look at it as a good thing they're keeping such a close eye on things!

Also, average is only average because so many are above and below it. I wouldn't think about it too much if you can help it.

Best of luck to you though, it's all rather interesting when they turn up.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Thanks, just annoying too and the way she went on about him reducing in size instead of increasing just worried me. All my friends are having two scans at Kings and going about their business and i am the only one having to go back there time and time again. And people say Kings is the best? hmph! I prefer a smaller baby of course, but I don't want him reducing in size if he is meant to be bigger! Ahh, no point worrying though of course I do!

[Keef]

All my friends are having two scans at Kings and going about their business and i am the only one having to go back there time and time again. And people say Kings is the best?

Surely you'd rather this, than some backwater hospital that just said,"yeah, seems okay".

If it makes you feel better, we had 5 scans at St Thomas', and they're meant to be pretty good too.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I would rather they stop worrying me! Everyone says it is ok, and not to worry but just a bit hard when one keeps getting called back. Probably the fact I really dislike Kings has a big part to play also,but yes, better to be safe than sorry. It would help if they could be more informative because she tells me he is reducing in size around his abs, and then she says I might just carry small and then sends me off on my merry way, so it sounds like something and nothing. Hence my popping up here and asking if anyone had the same thing? Though the weight is average the reduction isn't. She even pointed to a chart on her computer plotting his growth and was saying he is between the average line but that it is not consistent and was showing me that if the line drops it is not good news. Quite dramatic really, I left the hospital really worried and confused and having it in black and white on my medical notes doesn't help either, these 7 weeks are going to drag!! ( mental note, must stop being dramatic!)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Try and stop worrying - I think Kings errs on the cautious side. I had 11 scans and was convinced my daughter was going to have two heads. In the end, she was born with wonky toes which I can live with.

[crystal7]

Hi Heidi

I was asked to go for an extra scan because baby's weight had dropped from 50th centile at 12 weeks to 15th at 23. At 28 weeks all seemed fine (she was still on 15th) and the sonographers weren't even sure why I had been asked back! I remember being very worried, especially as one of the sonographers at the 23 week scan started lecturing me about the importance of protein! All was fine and she weighed 7lb 4oz at a week overdue (hardly tiny). Try not to worry (easier said than done I know!).

Good luck!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Thank you, I am not going to stress anymore, my reasoning is, he is 34 weeks almost, he is over 4lbs, he is fully developed, and it is not long until he is due ( full term is 37 -40 weeks) so when I go back for my scan I will be around 36+ weeks so if there are problems or not, he should still be healthy and strong enough and that does me.

I cannot wait until I see the back of Kings....

[The Nappy Lady]

Heidi,

I do understand your frustration, but I think it is better they are ultra cautious than blase. If there is any cause for concern, better they keep a closer eye on things. I think it is probably the communication/explanations that are at fault here rather than the scanning, if that makes sense.

I reckon once you are a parent you are programmed to worry (to a lesser or greater extent) much of the time anyway - are they eating enough, drinking enough, sleeping enough, then later it is where are they going, who are they hanging out with etc. etc. etc. Not sure it ever stops as my 80 year old Mum still worries about me and I am 40 now (am I sleeping enough, resting enough etc. etc. LOL...sounds familar eh?).

Not long to go now, hang in there, it will all be worth it once you've got your little boy to cuddle.

Molly

[buggie]

Guessing it's similar worry to the centile charts in red books - a drop or increase of 2 or more centile lines can be indicative of possible problems - obviously there is some margin of error within this, but there there has to be a point at which extra checks are done and this is it. Am sure if you'd ask they would explain what this meant

With Kings being a leading hospital in prenatal care/surgery the sonographers are probably even more aware than at maybe a district general where the problems hese tests safeguard against wouldn't be seen as often.

Rather than trying to be difficult, am sure their actually ensuring that any potential problems are recognised and acted upon at the earliest stage - the best interests of you and your son are at the crux of what their doing. Having seen your opinions on Kings previously am sure you'd be quick enough to comment if they'd missed something, so appreciate their cautiousness!!

[antijen]

Hi heidihi, My niece has just went through similar probs about babys weight, she gave birth to baby boy 2wks ago 6lbs 2oz. She was told the baby was definitely smaller than 1st baby 5lbs 10oz and put so much fear into her. I think this is a problem that happens with hospitals, instead of letting people feel a natural worry that sometimes comes with not taking life for granted, they try to install there fear into you. When hospitals gave more control to management I think the problem worsened, at each of my births the management (Kings) of midwives made an appointment with me, to try and persuade me to go into hospital to give birth, because of my health problems, I refused, and realised it was more about if anything went wrong I would sue, my husband and me then offered to put in writing we will take full resposibility for anything going wrong. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and the birth.

[Fuschia]

There is a quite a margin for error on the scans. I had fortnightly ones with the twins and sometimes they relaly struggled to get measurements at all.

On the Weds they said one baby was 6lb 12, and the other 4lb 4... they were born on the Friday night, they were 6lb 4 and 5lb 5. Quite a big difference.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Buggie, I have never been difficult to any of the staff there, I turn up for all my appointments despite being made to wait for hours on end, having blood taken in an ADMIN room, having the curtains opened so others could see me etc, I never was difficult despite this, I put in a letter of complaint but like most things in this country, they apologise but don't do anything about it. I am quite a friendly pleasant talkative person. One thing people would not say about me is that I am difficult because I am not, but if something is wrong, I most certainly will contact the top man and complain but I am never rude or difficult in other ways.

I am aware they are doing what they think is right but at the same time, they really do like to worry parents as you can see by the postings on here, and they could explain things better, rather than just say what they say and leave us to fill in the rest. I came on here to ask if anyone knows what the centile etc means in terms that I can understand because though the sonographer explained in the way she understood, I don't understand it. So for me, though I don't rate Kings at all, I just want to know if the abdominal reduction is a serious issue and if there is anything etc I can do about it. Even the father is worried and keeps asking me what it means, but I don't know.

Molly, you are right, we always worry from day one, from pregnancy until they are adults, it is innate. I think with things like scans and pregnancy we just worry more because we cannot see the baby and have to take various medical professionals words for it whereas when you have babe in your arms, it is a bit easier because you can see for yourself and take charge of the situation.

I think with the mixture of the heatwave, nearing the end of pregnancy,lack of sleep, usual aches and pains and having to keep going to Kings and waiting waiting waiting, I am just getting fed up now, but I was warned towards the end it gets harder.

Antijen, I know many people who have had home births and said it is the best ever, I would have but it being my first baby, I didn't want to chance it.

Fuschia, I guess I should not moan since you had to endure fornightly scans throughout your pregnancy, they were good weights! I think I will go to St Thomas next time ( if I ever have anymore!), only because I hate waiting and at least waiting times are quicker at St Thomas.

( Exhale) not long now! I am just going to waddle off and stuff my face with ice lollies!

[nunheadmum]

We had a similar experience with our first at Kings. I had a low lying placenta early on which they made sound like it could bleed at any time - in the end it moved up naturally as I got bigger and was well out the way and never caused any problems...but the fact they stressed so much what to do if it did bleed, got me worried. They also kept telling me that the baby was small - likewise I was getting scanned every 4 weeks up to about 34 wks then every 2. We seemed to keep getting the head honcho guy doing the scans too so we were convinced he must be right. I went out and bought small baby clothes thinking I didn't want the baby looking even smaller in too big clothes. The last scan was done by someone else who gave us quite a different reading - far more average. In the end she was a very healthy 6lb 15oz and I'd to send my mum out for bigger babygros!

The moral of the story I think is that scanning doesn't seem to be an exact science and one scan (perhaps even one sonographer?) can produce skewed results. And I think in trying to give full information, (covering their backs in case of legal action?) they can sometimes seem to stress the negative more than necessary.

I don't understand the exact details of what you were told but I would try not to worry and see what the next scan tells you. If anything does come up again, keep asking questions until they give you an answer you understand. Or maybe your midwife could help to explain more in the interim?

[buggie]

Think you read my post wrong - wasn't saying in it that you were difficult -

"Rather than trying to be difficult, am sure their actually ensuring that any potential problems are recognised and acted upon at the earliest stage - the best interests of you and your son"

was instead trying to explain that their not deliberately being difficult towards you

[Moos]

HeidiHi, if you read Buggie's post again you will see that she is referring to the sonographers, who are 'not being difficult'.

[Moos]

Oops, cross-posted with buggie!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Sorry Buggie, I do apologise, seems like a day of confusion for me!:-$

Nunheadmum, my next scan is before my midwife appointment, I am sure in two weeks time I will know one way or another about his growth but indeed I shall ask my midwife when I see her to clear up matters for me.

[EDmummy]

I do think it is all about perspective. Two great, fantastic pregnancies, two babies struggling at birth. Nothing ever came up as a problem in my scans (2 with 1st, 3 with 2nd). Attempted to have first at home with home birth team until rushed to hospital with medical emergency - thank god for quick thinking, well trained medics - ended up with healthy, wonderful baby. Second time, opted for hospital birth after difficulties first time and experienced fantastic response by Kings team and baby was in absolute right place when he needed and required emergency treatment in special care. I love all the teams at Kings so much for their attention and support.

HeidiHi, all of this will pale into insignificance once baby is born and develops into a loving child. I completely understand your concerns but I hope you can let it go and look forward to the many years to come.

[chantelle]

there is a lot of natural variation, and some babies develop at different rates than others. Also, measurements in utero are imprecise - any honest sonographer will admit it just depends on where they put the dots.

My son measured big in some bits (head, abdomen), small in others (femur, some other thing i've forgotten), and he was absolutely fine. He is actually quite small - was 30% centile for weight in the womb, 50% at birth, and then varied from 9% to 20% for ages. (stopped having him weighed - now he looks chubby enough). My point, like that of others, is that everything is probably absolutely fine!

[Ann]

EDmummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do think it is all about perspective. Two

> great, fantastic pregnancies, two babies

> struggling at birth. Nothing ever came up as a

> problem in my scans (2 with 1st, 3 with 2nd).

> Attempted to have first at home with home birth

> team until rushed to hospital with medical

> emergency - thank god for quick thinking, well

> trained medics - ended up with healthy, wonderful

> baby. Second time, opted for hospital birth after

> difficulties first time and experienced fantastic

> response by Kings team and baby was in absolute

> right place when he needed and required emergency

> treatment in special care. I love all the teams

> at Kings so much for their attention and support.

>

> HeidiHi, all of this will pale into insignificance

> once baby is born and develops into a loving

> child. I completely understand your concerns but

> I hope you can let it go and look forward to the

> many years to come.

your last sentence sums it up so well. Great post!

[Belle]

Hi heidi,

I know just how confusing and upsetting that type of appointment to be. You can't quite think of all the questions you have at the time, and you find yourself nodding along and then coming out and going, what?!

I can't profess to know anything about specific measurements/centiles but just wanted to say I understand and hope you're not stressing too much. I found out at about 34 weeks that my baby was small for dates and this was confirmed by a scan (he was about 4Lbs 6 I think at that point but it was more that his growth had slowed quite a bit from earlier scans). In my case this was actually down to pre-eclampsia, but as others have said, lots of people have scans showing varying growth with nohting to worry about. and in the end he turned up at 36 weeks weighing 5.4 and was fine. It does sound like they are taking extra precautions which is a good thing, and should be reassuring - but of course them using terms which nobody understands doesn't help matters. Why not ring your midwife rather than waiting for the appt? She might be able to explain things better. One thing I wish I'd done differently is call my midwife more - was always worried about bothering them but that's what they are there for!

[Jo]

I had a worrying scan at Kings at 12 weeks, which was horrible (not because of the sonographers, just because you do want everything to be ok). I spoke to my midwife about it who was brilliant, and she also suggested that I call the Harris Birthright Centre and ask if someone could call me back to talk about the results in more depth. TBH I've found all the staff there willing to take time and explain once I got myself into question asking mode, which always seems to be impossible when you are first given the news. They are pioneers in fetal medicine at Kings, and look after women with extreme complications from all over the country, which means they are always going to be busier than your average maternity unit, and also more alert to things that might be concerning.

It sounds as though the sonographer thought there was little to worry about, but just wants to be sure. She has to tell you if she has a concern, even a minor one, and even though it will most likely be nothing, because if it was something, and she'd kept that from you, you'd feel much worse long term and definitely have something to say. It's a case of better safe than sorry - try not to worry, make some calls when you can, and look forward to catching another glimpse of your boy.

[BellendenBear]

I am going to attempt to explain centime charts, or at least my understanding of them. Centime charts are like a plot of the normal distribution of height, weight or whatever for a particular population. It is not that you are only 'normal' or healthy if you are on a particular centile as clearly some of us are short or tall, have a slightly bigger or smaller head, but can all be normal. At 5'2'', I am on the 25th centile for adult women, so not surprisingly my baby girl is on the 25th. Similarly a woman could be 6 inches taller than me but we would both be within the normal spectrum. Another way to look at it is that in a room of 100 women, 75 will be taller than me, 25 will be shorter. Same with babies.

The important thing with babies is that they grow along a centile, or don't deviate too much so that you can see their growth is steady. And that if they are on a particular centile for one variable (eg weight), they are on a comparable centile for others (eg height) so that they are in proportion. My baby has a relatively big head (so do I) on the 50th centile. So her head is the average size for baby girls of her age but because the rest of her is smaller than average, her head looks a bit big.

So, back to your scan, the AC has dropped from one centile to a lower one. Doesn't mean that his abdomen has got smaller but that the growth has slowed so they need to keep an eye on things.

The other thing to remember is that scans and measurements and centile charts are for screening, they are not always diagnostic. Unfortunately this means that some people will be put through unnecessary worry to enable problems to be detected in most cases. Please try not to worry too much, it sounds like they are being cautious.

Finally, I know KCH had its problems, but I found their antenatal care and scanning excellent. Had a private scan too which was nowhere near as good - less time, less measurements, much less qualified sonographer.

Hope some of this makes sense.