a dulwich mum slaps her child .

[Muley]

Well my dad would force me to sing 'Oops Upside Your Head' by the Gap Band*. And make me sit on the floor and do the stupid 'rowing' dance too. Inhuman, it was...

*Ask your mum, she'll know.

[Keef]

Muley, you win, that is proper abuse!

[david_carnell]

We have been here before folks:

Corporal Punishment

And only a few months back too.

But I said it then and I'll say it again for what it's worth:

If every time you broke the law or misbehaved in public as an adult, the police would come and whack you round the head or wallop you on the arse with a baton would it instil a sense of respect for authority in you?

Frankly, I'd begin to loathe them as authoritarians who think they are above the law. Rather than respect them I would resent them. Rather than being there for my own good I would see them as the enemy.

We don't see physical violence as a method of curbing adult bad behaviour and yet it is deemed suitable and actually educational to do so to our children. And for every anecdote that will be wheeled out that "it never did me any harm" there will be the same number who could tell horrific stories of excessive parental violence that society tolerated because it "was what has always happened".

I think smacking your children is only reflective of a lack of imagination and effectiveness in disciplining your children using normal methods. It is your failure, not your children's, that leads to it.

[ClareC]

Annasfield Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Chick Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Smacking gave you respect for policemen? How

> about

> > a severe beating like those given by the TSG at

> > the G20 protest, would your respect grow? And

> why

> > not in anger?

>

>

> Thats not what ClareC said now is it?

>

> As a kid if I got in trouble as school, I was more

> concerned about what my parents would say when

> they saw the report. If I was out with my mates

> and they started acting like scallies, I was more

> frightened of the reaction that my parents would

> have if I was brought home by the police rather

> than actually being caught by the police.

> Therefore - I behaved.

>

> I can probably count on one hand how many times I

> was actually smacked by my parents, but knowing it

> could happen made sure I towed the line.

>

> Everyone (eugh, nearly typed Everton then) has the

> right to their own opinion. If a smack on the back

> of your children's legs doesn't work for you, then

> don't do it. At the same time, I don't think it's

> right to judge people that advocate it.

>

> *puts on tin hat*

Thank you, exactly the point I was making!

If I got in trouble at school the threat of my parents being told meant I knew I would be in a whole lot more trouble when I got home, getting in trouble with the police was unthinkable!! I remember a school friend of mine took up shop lifting aged about 8, I wouldnt go near a shop with her when I realised!!

Keef..... I too rememeber the bathroom being the place to leg it too!

I am not saying parents should or should not smack, I am saying that it used to be the norm and didnt do any harm (not talking about child beatings here)! I don't agree that it should become un PC!

I don't have children myself and have no idea how (when i do) how I will choose to discipline them - I guess it all depends on the individual child and what works with them!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

You're so right, David. Iron Maiden and thumb screws win every time.

[Mick Mac]

I think smacking your children is only reflective of a lack of imagination and effectiveness in disciplining your children using normal methods. It is your failure, not your children's, that leads to it.

Well said David - I'm glad someone sees it the same way as me.

[david_carnell]

I'm detecting sarcasm but I'm not sure I quite understand it.

Iron Maiden? Thumbs screws?

Am I having a (natural) blond moment?

[Keef]

Mick, I think quite a few people see it your way. ClareC, Anna, myself, not one of us said it was a good idea to smack kids, just that it happened a lot in the past, and hasn't necessarily done any harm.

I hope I never hit my kid, I really do. But again, I'd rather that, than give them a beating out of rage.Fingers crossed, neither will ever happen.

Also worth pointing out, that David's quote was regarding corporal punishment, which is a bit different. IMO, schools physically punishing kids, is a very different thing from parents doing it.

[Jah Lush]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My dad just had to start to get up from his seat,

> and I'd be legging it to the bathroom (only room

> in the house with a lock). He'd not actually get

> as far as all the way out of his seat, but I

> wouldn't know this as I was sitting on the loo

> wondering when it would be "safe".

Me and my sister did that too.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I was referring to a lack of imagination and effectiveness.

[Annasfield]

ClareC, Anna, myself......

Errr, yeah and we all turned out dead normal didn't we?

Perhaps I should retract my earlier posts. ;-)

[Jah Lush]

Normal. What's normal? If you're normal I intend to be a freak for the rest of my life.

[Mick Mac]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick, I think quite a few people see it your way.

> ClareC, Anna, myself, not one of us said it was a

> good idea to smack kids, just that it happened a

> lot in the past, and hasn't necessarily done any

> harm.

>

> I hope I never hit my kid, I really do. But again,

> I'd rather that, than give them a beating out of

> rage.Fingers crossed, neither will ever happen.

>

> Also worth pointing out, that David's quote was

> regarding corporal punishment, which is a bit

> different. IMO, schools physically punishing kids,

> is a very different thing from parents doing it.

Thanks Keef - but ironically its parental punishment that really grates on me. I think a child trusts and loves it parents and should never fear physical punishment from them. I think the first time a child is smacked by one if its parents it suffers such a breach of trust and is most likely extremely shocked to receive pain from the person who so far in its life has only given it positve encouragement and where necessary verbal discouragement.

Funny enough I don't think punishment from a teacher at school is any where near as bad.

[citizenED]

I've always considered that authentic discipline is self-discipline. This comes from an internal sense of right and wrong which is learnt from observation and experience. I cannot see how slapping a child when it does something wrong can instil in that child a sense of self discipline. If it gets hurt when it does something then it might learn not to do it. But it's only a conditioned response. That is not real discipline.

[Keef]

Well, to the likes of citizen, and Mick, I hope I can prove to be as sensible and controlled as you (that is not meant in a sarcy way). I just don't want to get all preachy about it, having not been in the situation yet, which you guys both have.

[citizenED]

Keef, from time to time my little urchins have driven me to distration, that's for sure. Having a toddler wanting to do completely the opposite of what you want then to do is a situation that will test the most patient of people and I am not saying that I've not been fleetingly tempted to administer a little slap. But in that situation it really is better to bite your lip, count to ten (or twenty, thirty or whatever number it takes) or preferably slap yourself.

Think about it. In caring and teaching a child one of the main things is consistency. If you only slap a child when things have built up to such a head that you snap, where is the consistency there? That is about your reaction, not the child's behaviour. That is not a good lesson. But if you commonly use the slap with a cool head as a result of what you consider the child's poor behaviour, then how scarey is that: you need to have a harsh word with yourself.

[espelli]

I agree with CitizenED. In my experience (not as a parent, but as a teacher) generally the children who are slapped - or sometimes beaten - by their parents are not better behaved or more disciplined. In fact they are usually the opposite - they know that no one in school will use physical punishment. They are just more likely to beg and cry for me not to tell their parents. They repeatedly fail to make the link between their actions at the time of doing them and the resulting beating when their parent finds out. They behave very well for their parent but are out of control away from them. That is enough to convince me that it is an ineffective tool, and as CitizenED says above, that it is centred on the control of the parent rather than the child having their own standard of behaviour.

I think it is also interesting that if you slap an adult it is assault but if you slap your child it is discipline.

[daizie]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> daizie Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I have just witnessed a middle class family,

> lose

> > their temper with a three year old, in front of

> > the general public, and slap their child round

> > the back of the legs ! I really didnt think

> that

> > happened here! I am shocked .

>

>

> My mother regularly slapped me on thighs if I

> misbehaved, which was often. When I look back I

> really must have tried her patience far too often

> for her to lose her temper with me in such a way

> but I probably deserved it. Still, most times she

> just had to give me that look and I'd full into

> line for fear of getting a smack.

>

> As for the class comment - shove it.

Why should i shove it Jah Lush?

All I meant was, for all the posh voices , social nice-eties and private education, when i comes down to it, they acted no better than un-educated chavs , was an eye opener and just made me chuckle, thats all :))

[Brendan]

espelli Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it is also interesting that if you slap an

> adult it is assault but if you slap your child it

> is discipline.

Well I for one think there shouldn?t be a difference, there are plenty of adults who could do with a good slap too.

Dealing with them is a daily test of my dedication to pacifism

[Mick Mac]

i believe that dedication to pacifism should be exercised in our dealings with children in the same way as we exercise it in our dealings with adults.why should it be different.

[AllforNun]

Did dulwich mum not breed her children like Jacko ?