Work after babies

[Belle]

This is really useful - giving me loads of things to think about! It's true that there are obviously so many different ways of doing it, it's just a case of working out which one is best for everyone. I totally agree that it's a myth that when they're in school it all falls back in to place - how can it? Especially with school holidays. My mum was a teacher and my dad was self-employed so I never really thought about school holidays and having my parents around till I got older - now I realise how lucky I was! Have no idea what we'll do when we get to that stage, first challenges first I guess...

Will keep you posted if I end up doing anything interesting!

[lorraineliyanage]

Teaching really is a great career as it allows you to have the same holidays off as your child. I don't know if it's something you'd consider doing as there's a fair bit of retraining involved, unless you had skills to tutor children locally, or set up a study group for young ones? Not all teaching is school-based. I teach privately from home and it fits really well with my daughter. I start work around 2.30 or 3pm, and I only need to pay for childcare until my husband gets home around 6pm when he takes over babysitting duties until I finish work around 8.30pm.

[Belle]

I agree it's a great career from that point of view - but sadly I'm not really cut out for it - apart from not having anything I could particularly teach, I just don't have the skills needed! I really admire people who can do it. Though along those lines, I have been reading about the Government training programme for pre-school education and that does sound interesting.

[lorraineliyanage]

You could try working as a classroom assistant to see if it's something you'd be interested in? Or Montessori training is very good and probably in demand here.

[KatsuQueen]

This is a really interesting thread! I'm been reading avidly because I'll be back at work in October and just trying to sort out my childcare now. To be honest, there has never been any question in my mind about whether or not I go back to work - I have always been sure that I would go back to work for personal reasons (but more about that later).

The plan is that I work 4 days and MrKatsu works 4 days, so we need to find childcare for 3 days. Although I had prepared myself for the costs, it is depressing to think that we are working to pay for the childcare. There really is very little left over. :( But I think it's the right thing to do because I do enjoy my work, I find it challenging and fulfilling - so I am sure that I would have regrets in the future if I gave it up now.

From a personal point of view, it also seems a waste for me to give up my job and "throw away" all the years of hard work and money my parents spent on my education. I don't mean that SAHM are in any way "wasting" their lives, but just my personal POV. I'm not English so my parents basically spent their life savings on educating me and my siblings at University. This was real blood, sweat and tears money. I can remember at 18, when my Dad was writing a cheque for my Uni fees, he said - why don't you just get married instead? I think he was only half-joking!!

Although it is a juggling act, I do feel lucky that I have a choice! There are millions of women (just like me) who can only see their children once a year for a week because they HAVE to work.

[nicolemodesti]

I agree that teaching is a great career in the fact that you get school holidays!! But as a teacher myself and returned full time when our boy was 6 months, I have found the last 4 months a juggling act. Especially as I have 2 subject leader roles apart from my class based teacher role. I am in school by 7.30am to set up the day, work relentlessly, and still don't manage to finish everything. Therefore after pick up from Granny, drive home, dinner, bath, bedtime and organising everything for our boy for the next day I find myself at the computer doing an additional 2 hours work. Saturday is also spent with 4 hours planning, marking and resourcing for school for the following week. Don't think that school holidays are spent just with your child as you possibly may find that you spend a day in school organising your next half term and sorting your classroom. Summer holidays will require more with a new class to think about.The teaching career is changing dramatically and new professional standards are quite demanding.I'm not sure I could have done all this with a new baby and enter the profession!! Saying all this I thoroughly love teaching and even do a couple of after school tutoring sessions. I was always sure that I would return to work even more so with the rather meagre maternity package offered in the borough I work in.Plus I have a fantastic and supportive Head Teacher who really does consider your emotional well being and will give me additional coordinator role time, out of class, if too snowed down. Even offered that I could do this from home but I just don't seem to achieve anything then! Working as a Teaching Assistant is an option but in my opinion it is quite underpaid for the hours and effort that these valuable professionals put in. Some have found that their pay goes directly to childcare costs and nothing left over.

Wishing you the best of luck Belle in your decision making but please do enjoy your time at home as it really does fly by too quickly.

[Pugwash]

I feel really priviledged to have had a less complicated working mum lifestyle. Daughter number 1 - went back to work after 6 weeks as a relative who had retired a year or so earlier, looked after her all day. When she was on holiday, another relative took over.

Daughter No 2. Took 5 months off after birth and was given a work place nursery place - travel with baby to County Hall daily was tiring as buses very crowded and sometimes had to stand. After about a year transferred to work place nursery in Bellenden Road ( now Muslim Women's Centre and Youth Service) hubby and I took turns in taking and collecting her.

When I worked in Tower Hamlets, I was able to use my car so I drove each morning and hubby picked up on his push bike.

Daughter No.1 now has two kids herself - drops them off at Breakfast Club on way to college at 8 am, partner or she collects from after school club. Holidays - mixture of me, sisters in law and friends and occassional holiday play centre.

[womanofdulwich]

Just to say I have worked between 3 and 5 days a week since my 17 year old was born. Been through the whole lot , nannies, au pairs, "after school Care". My children are now 13 and 17 and it is still a bum deal, as they need someone around to keep an eye on them- just when you think - ah they can manage by themselves for 2 hours until I get in -( 3 days a week) you come home find they have eaten all the bread and cakes,it is 7 o' clock you have to feed them, then make them do homework, run them around etc. Do not kid your self it gets easier - it does not - it just changes- the only thing I would say is that it is impossible to get a paid job that will give you any satisfaction if you have not worked for 12 years, as some of my stay at home friends found ( the ones that waited until their children started secondary school). Force your self to do some thing- charitable if you can afford not to earn money- where deadlines/ cancelled meetings for sick children are looked on more sympathetically. School holidays- 13 weeks a year- versus 5 weeks work holidays if you are senior enough? don't even go there!!!

One big regret was not getting into an education based job, where the holidays are so brilliant- provided you like that kind of work...........

[littleEDfamily]

Womanofdulwich... that was truly depressing (in the nicest possible way!) I have just been shaken into the reality of the long road ahead. It is terrifying to think about the impact of a few years of non-working can have in terms of being able to re-enter the workforce at a respectable level.

What do people out there think about the recession making employers more likely to agree to part-time work? (I can see how it may work both ways)

Does anyone have any experience in relation to the current conditions and their impact flexible working?

[Mellors]

I'e just been through a redundancy process at my work (City law). I am the only part time employee (3 days a week) and in the end the half of the team that ended up leaving were all full time members of staff. I think in a lot of ways it worked in my favour - I was very flexible and offered to work more or less days as the job required (this only works if you have a nanny).

I also think they get great value for money from me - I am quite senior, but they only have to pay me just over half my salary, and I work really hard (more than half as hard!). I can work unsupervised, am totally professional and can manage the more junior staff for them. I think its a winner for them in the current economic climate - experienced staff on a flexible basis for not much cash!

[veryseriousgirl]

Mellors, sounds like you have a great set up! I am expecting my first in November and have noticed that a)all part-time workers are now gone from redundancy (they count as a full headcount when making cuts, so why cut a headcount who works 5 days when you get the same amount of credit for cutting someone who works 3 days) and b) my boss has made it abundantly clear that there will be no part time roles available when I come back from maternity leave. I'm a project manager, so that seems a little ridiculous, as, when I did the same role as a consultant (rather than working directly within the bank), it was very common for women with children to come back 3 - 4 days a weeks doing exactly the same thing that I'm doing now.

So still trying to figure out what to do after the baby is born...

[plimsoul]

it's such a catch 22, a society has been created that pretty much needs both parents to work to afford the rent/mortgage. but childcare costs are such a burden that women end up running around trying to cram everything in: perfect mum (media and personal pressure upon yourself) perfect employee (throw back to your old self that you in part miss and also a sense of responsibility at work) and that's not to add household, organising holidays, being a size 10, eating well, being a good listening partner/wife etc..!!!

yet there are so few state run nurseries and then that only covers the early years. plus, there are no incentives to create job shares or promote flexible time for dads to go pick up/feed/clean etc...

[littleEDfamily]

What would be great is if the UK adopted the Australian system that gives tax breaks (can't quite remember the details) to the main earner once one of the partners gives up work to take care of children. It means (I think) that the family essentially gets the tax-free/ lower rate tax for two people on the main earner's income (so you only pay the higher rate of tax on a smaller portion of your income). Not very well explained but I hope you get the jist.

There must be groups that are lobbying for something like this? Anyone have any further detail? I'd like to try and be some sort of activist for once in my dull life!

[plimsoul]

i am going to go digging on the net, there must be. with a recession on the general tendency will be for society in general to paint a more negative image of women at work (i read this whilst researching media:women at work:images of) but maybe this recession requires people to look at the whole picture and how to encourage part time work, invest in good state care for children etc...

oh who knows??

[damzel]

littleEDfamily - the recession was the reason why there wasn't an issue for me to go back part-time. I thought I would have to fight to reduce my hours but as they were trying to cut costs and I get paid on a per hour basis, it suited them too.

[Smiler]

It is so hard, good to hear what you are all doing.

Completely agree that it should be more acceptable for Dads to do more. In this climate think they are scared that if they ask to leave early / work from home or part-time they will get binned. I get really upset as my partner works mega- long hours when he gets home after a full day in the office, and while he does his fair share with our daughter and th housework etc. when actually there he then works til silly hours of the night so I never see him. It is (1) work (2) our daughter (3) household and (4) everything else, including us/me! Have tried to be supportive, but after years and years of it am getting hopping mad with both him and his employer! Oh dear.

I'm lucky to have a well-paid office job with a great (public sector) employer and had a full year off after working full-time before, then went back part-time, three days a week, which I enjoy as is a nice break from childcare but still leaves me with more of the week at home. Use a nursery, which is fine as long as she is well, but terrible when she gets ill as they won't give medication etc. end up taking lots of time off as no fall-back childcare except for the two of us.

Work-wise three days isn't great though, especially as I also go in and leave early and have no flexibility to stay late. Feel like am always out of the office and behind and my boss says unhelpful things about the importance of time management while piling on the work and swanning in at 11am! grr. Also feel guilty when have to take time off if our daughter is ill or for anything else, as am not there that much anyway and get even more behind. May have to go up to four days if I want to get anywhere further career-wise.

Reckon is worth keeping working for the medium to long-term financial returns - in short-run salary only covers cost of childcare, but staying in work builds the CV, can work towards promotion, make contacts then earn more in future etc. Short-term pain for long-term gain. Also, for me, more satisfying to work part-time than stay at home full-time, and easier! But depends on your partner too, could go wrong if both working all the time.

Sorry that this is such a whingy post - think this is a really important issue and glad to be discussing it, don't mean to rant about husbands / bosses!

[Goodliz]

I started working for myself after having my first son in August 2004.

The situation I was in was very lucky as I was offered redundancy from my old job just before I went on maternity leave. I had already trained to become a Personal Trainer (a complete career change) specialising in ante and post natal exercise.

The hours are great as you can fit them round the kids. I also work evenings and Saturdays so that is a bit of a bind but it has to be done to make up the extra money.

Getting the work in is more difficult now as my eldest has started school and the days are so much shorter than when he was at nursery. Luckily my husband has the proper job with a more dependable (if you can say that in a recession) income.

I teach Powerpramming and can bring the kids with me to the classes when I need to.

It has ups and downs like any other way of wrking but I honestly think I would be totally stressed out in my old job as I would be constantly worried about getting to work on time as it was in town and then picking up the kids in time etc etc. I would also find it very difficualt phoning a boss to say my kids are sick as they inevitably are from time to time.

My way of working suits me perfectly so I would say the only downside is the drop in salary. A small price to pay though as I can be around so much for the kids - by the way, that is not a dig at anyone who works full time etc. No offence meant as this can be a delicate subject.

[plimsoul]

rant away smiler, 'tis the lot of us mums!

[swipes]

littleEDfamily there is http://www.timeforparenting.org/. They campaign for tax breaks for stay at home mums and the site has lots of interesting links to relevant articles.

[littleEDfamily]

Cheers - that's great. I've had a skim and will have a proper read over the next few days - some quite controversial/ thought provoking articles on there.

[littleEDfamily]

Sorry - I think I killed the thread going off on a tangent about tax.

I was finding everyone's stories really interesting, so would love to hear more about personal experiences with work after babies.

[Belle]

the tangents are always good though! I'm going to look into that site too. It would be good to hear from anyone who did end up staying at home, as that's definitely an option.

[mumum]

I would love to hear from someone who stays at home too! I looked at the timeforparenting website and was really freaked out. Considering quitting my job (I do that quite often even though I love it so much)! There is a book review about how working moms are little more than evening babysitters for their children. Maybe this is true? I would love it if my husband could look after our child a day or two a week, that would make me a lot less guilty about work, but his job doesn?t allow for that.

I just wonder if it is really so bad if a child grows to love someone as well as their parents, if they are loving people, even though they are paid (like a nanny or childminder?) In the old days, children were raised by big family groups, and loved many people, not just mommy. If I was a a stay at home mom and found peace with this lifestyle, I would probably be a lot less like Woody Allen though. I would be a totally better mom, and would brush my childs hair twice a day, instead of just chopping off the knotty tangles when they appear (don?t tell my nanny or social services). But I spend every minute I am not working with my daughter and we just skip things which seem "unimportant" (I do brush her teeth). I still think it is a total tragedy, that women who really want to work part time should have to stay at home or work more than they want, when they are such resourceful people. But then, if I didn?t absolutely love my job, I don?t think I would put myself through all this hassle.

Smiler: keep whinging! Maybe we should start another post ranting about husbands and a separate one for bosses, but that would probably be an even worse can of worms, so let?s not open that, it?s not like any dads are online in an existential debate about work and parenthood, they are just checking out sports or slightly similar!

[Pickle]

I'm a stay at home Mum, have read this thread with interest as I've never had the stress of the work/not work decision and am in awe of you ladies who have coped so admirably juggling work/childcare etc.

10 years ago I would have laughed in the face of anyone who suggested I'd end up at home looking after two small children, and had all but decided that a high powered career was for me. At the time I was an accountant working my way up in a large firm (in NZ). I moved to the UK and continued my accountancy career working for investment banks in the city, and loved it to begin with. But gradually things changed, I met my now husband, started to want more from life than just work, began to resent the city culture that seemed to exist meaning that unless you were seen at your desk at 8pm you weren't working hard enough - despite the fact that to fit in the gym I opted to start my working day at 6:30am.

At 30 I had something of a mid life crisis, and chucked in my job. I then retrained and spent a couple of years running weight loss classes (self employed), something I really enjoyed, but for very little financial reward.

It was very natural for me to stop work once I got pregnant with child #1, and the fact all I was eating was KFC and salt & vinegar crisps didn't really put me in good stead for advising people on healthy eating ;-) Both Mr Pickle and I grew up in families where Dad worked and Mum was at home with the kids, so for us it was "normal" to make the decision for me to stay home. Neither of us have any family nearby, so we don't have a close support network of family to help out. I got pregnant with #2 when #1 was just 9 months old, so going back to work between the two was pretty much ruled out anyway.

I surprised myself with how easy I found it to be at home with the kids. In all honesty I can say I love it, although I'd be lying to say I didn't have days where it would be easier to go to work. For me the key to being a SAHM is having a plan for my weeks - we go out a lot, go to playgroups/music etc (which I think is important given my 2.5 year old isn't in nursery and probably won't be for at least another year). Also important for me is having something outside of the house/family to keep me human (for lack of a better word)... I'm a musician and have a couple of groups every week that I go to where I'm looked at as a fellow musician and not a wife/mummy - in fact most of the people there probably don't even realise I've got kids, and in some ways I'm proud that I'm still able to exist on that level - if that makes sense?

Sometimes I'm reminded of the life I had - when I find my old high heeled shoes and marvel in the fact that I used to be able to wear them for a whole day at work, and then out for the evening! I laugh at myself when I find myself watching the weather forecast and getting excited about the fact I'll be able to hand lots of washing out the next day.

The biggest adjustment is by far not having my own money, but thankfully it hasn't become an issue and after 2.5 years I'm used to it.

I do appreciate that I'm lucky to have the option to be at home. I will re-enter the workforce in some form once my kids are at school but can't imagine ever returning to the city jobs I used to have. Any work I do in the future will be home based, or certainly local. I'm lucky enough to have options (I still have my accounting qualification, there are always people wanting to lose weight, and I'm also qualified to teach flute), so I'm sure I'll find something to fit in with the children when the time comes.

[womanofdulwich]

Pickle you seem to have it sorted- I could not get over the money thing though- I packed full time work in for 4 months once when children were in nursery in mornings but could not bear the scrutiny about money/ haircuts /gifts/ being dependent on someone else. I quickly ended up with loads of charity committee work -I felt too guilty not to do something using my skills and not giving anything back to society-which I really enjoyed and was far more rewarding than working for money - made me feel good about myself and question what it was all about- ended up going back 3 days a week.