Roadworks in Lordship Lane at end of North Cross Road

[85volga]

Err not really James, more like a storage yard for Conways , totally unacceptable,. They have the materials and have had for a while but when will they finish it ??

[DulwichFox]

James Barber Wrote:

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> It now looks very close to completion.

Bit like Sagrada Fam?lia in Barcelona..

Construction of Sagrada Fam?lia had commenced in 1882 and Gaud? became involved in 1883

An anticipated completion date of 2026 (144 - years)

Bit of a difference to a few kerb-stones though..

Foxy

[rch]

To be fair, this junction was originally flagged during an extensive Living Streets community walkabout back in 2006, but it's taken so long for the East Dulwich cllrs to pursue the elusive funding that it looks like the original concept got toned down by the Tooley Street Dictatorship.

The original idea was to build an extended raised crossing with a view towards creating a "piazza" outside the pub in tandem with the street market, while acting as a traffic calming measure when the road was open.

It's now more of a standard-issue build out with a normal raised crossing, but it's not looking too bad from what I can see emerging. Hopefully we'll be able to install some nice street containers with planting to soften it a bit, but I'm guessing that this will be against some new highways policy...

[DulwichFox]

rch Wrote:

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> To be fair, this junction was originally flagged

> during an extensive Living Streets community

> walkabout back in 2006, but it's taken so long for

> the East Dulwich cllrs to pursue the elusive

> funding that it looks like the original concept

> got toned down by the Tooley Street Dictatorship.

>

>

> The original idea was to build an extended raised

> crossing with a view towards creating a "piazza"

> outside the pub in tandem with the street market,

> while acting as a traffic calming measure when the

> road was open.

>

> It's now more of a standard-issue build out with a

> normal raised crossing, but it's not looking too

> bad from what

I can see emerging. Hopefully we'll

be able to install some nice street containers> with planting to soften it a bit, but I'm guessing> that this will be against some new highway> policy...

Please bear in mind planters may well impede view of oncoming traffic / cyclists from motorists turning out of North Cross Rd.

There are other examples of this where railings impede the view of oncoming traffic.

Ok from vans but when in a car you are much lower down so as a driver you have to edge out to see what's coming.

DulwichFox

[rch]

Yes, we'd need an engineer to advise... maybe something lower like troughs would work. It would just be really nice to recreate the concept of a community of human beings again, instead of all the barriers, tarmac, and Chinese granite...

[Penguin68]

I have seen troughs with 'hot lips' lobelia http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://theplantfarm.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/salvia-hot-lips.jpg&imgrefurl=https://theplantfarm.wordpress.com/&h=640&w=640&tbnid=ZAftW5GE4SP4-M:&docid=2DirfyMlNddktM&ei=uh_bVd3xJMLWU56sq_AB&tbm=isch&ved=0CC4QMygKMApqFQoTCN22lIftwccCFULrFAodHtYKHg in Wimeroux work very well - they are hardy and can be encouraged to be low growing by pruning. They grow OK in my garden in ED, so I suspect they would work on that site.

[rch]

Looks good! The CGS fund opens up in Sept, maybe we should make a bid for troughs with Hot Lips!

[first mate]

rch,

Agree. Having gone to all this time and effort to make something that was, if we have been told right, only a means to heighten the aesthetics of that junction, then we might as well have something that actually achieves this.

[DulwichFox]

Progress report...

5 bods on site .. 11.30. with 13 Blocks lined up to be lowered into place..

unfortunately no sign of the little machine that lowers them into place and the ground does not look

prepared to accept them.. seems like 2 - 3 blocks a day is the average..

I was in Berlin in the 70's.. a Junction the size or Hyde Park Corner was being resurfaced.

Dozens of lorries and machinery turned up Friday afternoon. 100's of road engineers worked around the clock

and the junction opened Monday morning.. and the technology in the 70's was less sophisticated.

It's a joke.. a few kerbstones and some paving.. ??

DulwichFox

[rch]

I must have just missed you, DulwichFox, as I was there around the same time, chatting to the workmen.

They told me that now that they have the politically correct granite kerbstones in stock, they've discovered that the blocks specified by the Tooley Street Dictatorship are actually too heavy for human beings to lift, so they've had to have a special device fitted to the digger to lift them (which I had a good look at).

Now that everything is sorted, they now think that they should be done with the works "in a couple of weeks".

[Sue]

rch Wrote:

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> they've discovered that the blocks specified by

> the Tooley Street Dictatorship are actually too

> heavy for human beings to lift

Oh dear oh dear.

Advance planning yet again not their forte, eh?

[rch]

It's more likely that all the new Tooley Street one-size-fits-all standards haven't actually filtered down to the management yet.

The workman I spoke to pointed at the "normal" kerbs across the street and said that they usually use those old-fashioned ones that they've been using for years. The Chinese kerbstones are huge... one could build a mini-Stonehenge with them!

[DulwichFox]

They are massive.. and cannot be man handled / maneuvered into place . 10" - 1ft square and 3 ft ? long..

DulwichFox

[rch]

Yes, I think it's the new highway specification for buildouts? It looks like they're using them up at the Townley junction, as well... must go up there and have a good look around.

BTW, going back to the troughs... I'll start a thread when the CGS funds are launched and we can all discuss bids.

[edhistory]

How much are F.M.Conway being paid?

[Zebedee Tring]

A lot of dosh. Libel law prevents me from saying anything further about that company and their Southwark contacts.

[Mugglesworth]

Perhaps the build-out kerbs are much bigger than the "normal" kerbs in order to cause damage to any vehicle that clips them? Their design may include extra height so that it is less likely that a vehicle could mount the kerb, either by accident or design.

[Zebedee Tring]

Drove past the works at about 3pm today. Sweet FA happening.

Southwark and Conways - what a collective shower.

[kford]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have seen troughs with 'hot lips' lobelia

> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://thep

> lantfarm.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/salvia-hot-li

> ps.jpg&imgrefurl=https://theplantfarm.wordpress.co

> m/&h=640&w=640&tbnid=ZAftW5GE4SP4-M:&docid=2DirfyM

> lNddktM&ei=uh_bVd3xJMLWU56sq_AB&tbm=isch&ved=0CC4Q

> MygKMApqFQoTCN22lIftwccCFULrFAodHtYKHg in Wimeroux

> work very well - they are hardy and can be

> encouraged to be low growing by pruning. They grow

> OK in my garden in ED, so I suspect they would

> work on that site.

I thought these build-outs were to free up more pavement space on busy market days. Wouldn't adding obstacles like flower troughs in this space cancel that out? (Although the idea of prettying up the pavement environment is a sound one in principle)

[James Barber]

I'd also hope we'd let the new space happen before deciding to fill it!

if we are going to fill it we have a real shortage of place for people to sit which we need to address - and was highlighted in the Living Streets reports about the walkability of the area.

[bob]

Were not these Build out's for want of a better word for traffic calming.

Bob S

[richard tudor]

There was also talk of cycle parking which takes care of this

[James Barber]

Hi bob,

They will hopefully calm traffic but primarily make the entrance to our market much more attractive.

[Penguin68]

James Barber wrote:-

They will hopefully calm traffic but primarily make the entrance to our market much more attractive.

Can I just remind everyone that 'our market' effectively operates only on Saturdays (I know it's available for operation on Fridays, but this is a very muted occasion generally) - and for only 12 of the 24 hours then - so for 13 fourteenths of the week the extended pavement is making only the entrance to a side street (one of many) 'more attractive'. And I am not sure why a wide stretch of empty pavement is peculiarly more attractive than a narrow(er) one. It would be good to put street seating there, of course, as it would be, I would argue, to have something growing there, although site lines on exiting the street are still an issue.

But to argue that this is really anything more than another attempt to strangle (sorry, calm) the free flow of traffic in LL would I think be naive - Southwark Council is not spending the sort of money it is on the build-out to beautify a market it doesn't really care about (it's a very middle class market, with virtually no 'real' street traders) - it's up to us to make our environment more attractive if we wish to - wide empty pavements don't do that for me, I'm afraid.

We could make something of the space, but it will probably end up as, at best, a cycle park - and give less space for pedestrians then before.

[Zebedee Tring]

Whatever the purpose of the works, how much longer are Southwark and their chums Conways going to take to complete the bloody works? In time for the Christmas street market?