Roadworks in Lordship Lane at end of North Cross Road

[DulwichFox]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Guys. This junction has had an entry treatment

> added. That's it. It isn't permanently closed. It

> hasn't been made one way.

>

> It took an age to make happen. But is in my eyes a

> big improvement for pedestrians and should reduce the chances of crashes at this junction.

I can see no evidence of any entry treatment ?? Gate ??

DulwichFox

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> It was a real market selling fruit & veg amongst

> other things that Local people needed.

> Not just Pig Roast, Hotdogs, 'Street Food' ?

> Unrefrigerated Meats and cheeses. Pop corn.

> and a few 'Tat' stalls..

>

> Does not constitute a market..

>

> How often do you shop there.. ?

>

> The only thing I have EVER bought there is the

> Tiger Tea, but the Tea Guy (lovely chap that he

> is)

> is only there one a month at the best.

>

Fox, the thing is, you are not representative of East Dulwich residents, or indeed of the twenty first century, but you seem to think you are.

Why would the market sell fruit and veg when there is a perfectly good fruit and veg shop already in North Cross Road?

And in case you hadn't noticed, there is a fresh fish stall, which you have conveniently left out, presumably because it doesn't suit your case. And a plant stall. And books, rugs and bike repairs.

Why should a market not sell things like hog roast and popcorn? Both those stalls seem to do very well.

And yes I do shop there most weeks. I quite often get lunch from the Vietnamese van, which is delicious and excellent value, or food from the stall which has things like fishcakes and very good salads. And cake from the Blackbird Bakery stall. And bits and pieces from other stalls, including what you term as "tat" stalls.

I would happily buy what looks like delicious cheese, olives, brownies etc if I had more money.

You really do seem out of touch with modern times :))

Do you honestly think a market like the ones at, say, the Elephant or East Street would be appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?

ETA: If you want a market which is still like something from the fifties, Peckham is just down the road .....

[davidk]

Probably just farting in the wind here but I was around LL and North Cross Road on foot yesterday and I'm quite pleased with the results. It looks a lot nicer than before and the (sort of) continuation of the footpath over the junction mouth makes me a lot more confident crossing the road there and claiming my right of way as a ped. Hard to understand why it took so long though.

[*Bob*]

Sue - if it doesn't have someone shouting "'BANANAS FOURFERRAPAAAAAND" then clearly it simply does not qualify as a 'market'.

(Despite the definition of 'a market' been simply a gathering of people where things - any things - are sold.)

We've bought something (to eat) there nearly every week.

The junction does look nicer, but its creation was a joke - somebody needs a good kick up the arse for it.

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

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Fox, the thing is, you are not representative of East Dulwich residents, or indeed of the twenty

first century, but you seem to think you are.

So after living in E.D. for 35 years, I am not representative of the area.?

That's wrong. I am not representative of E.D. residents on The EDF

Why would the market sell fruit and veg when there is a perfectly good fruit and veg shop already in North Cross Road?

Because that's what markets sell. and most have several F&V stalls. Even in the vast markets

in France , Belgium, and all the rest of Europe.. If you have ever been to ?

And in case you hadn't noticed, there is a fresh fish stall, which you have conveniently left out,

I did not conveniently leave out. Its just another FOOD stall and I don't buy meat / fish out of vans.

And yes I do shop there most weeks. I quite often You really do seem out of touch with modern times

Do you honestly think a market like the ones at, say, the Elephant or East Street would be appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?

YES, Why not? What does that mean.? Do you feel you are above that.. Better than that ?

That really does sum up EDF. Nail on the head..

DulwichFox.

[maxxi]

It was a real market selling fruit & veg amongst other things that Local people needed.

The only thing I have EVER bought there is the Tiger Tea,

I don't buy meat / fish out of vans.

DulwichSnob

[*Bob*]

Strange how a glut of bog-standard curry houses managing to stay in business ?must be? doing something right, are serving a public demand, nay - NEED - and deserve regular praise.. whereas stalls selling popcorn, cake and pork sandwiches - and are also managing to stay in business - ?can?t be?.

But then that?s the old Fox Logic for you.

[Sue]

I think you're living in some sort of bubble or time warp, Foxy.

What exactly makes you think that all the ED residents who don't post on this forum share your view?

I'm genuinely interested.

The evidence that the market is wanted round here is that sufficient people buy things from the stalls to keep the stallholders coming back with those things week after week!

[DulwichFox]

maxxi Wrote:

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> It was a real market selling fruit & veg amongst

> other things that Local people needed.

>

> The only thing I have EVER bought there is the

> Tiger Tea,

>

> I don't buy meat / fish out of vans.

>

> DulwichSnob

Me a snob.. You having a laugh.. ?

I think comments such as

'Do you honestly think a market like the ones at, say, the Elephant or East Street would be appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?'

bears the mark of snobbery..

DF.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Me a snob.. You having a laugh.. ?

>

> I think comments such as

> 'Do you honestly think a market like the ones at,

> say, the Elephant or East Street would be

> appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?'

> bears the mark of snobbery..

>

OK then, I'm a snob.

Never been called one before, but first time for everything :))

I bow before the clearly superior view of somebody who has lived in ED for 35 years and therefore thinks he's a typical resident.

ETA: Have you completely failed to notice the change in demographic of the road you (and I) live in???

Why don't you set up an ED market selling fruit and veg, mobile gadgets, plastic handbags and polyester bedding, and see how many of your "representative residents" or whatever you call them flock to it?

It's got nothing to do with snobbery. It's common bloody sense.

[DulwichFox]

Come on Sue.. You are a lot Posher than me..

I'm as common as muck :)

I went to William Penn School.

Foxy

[Zebedee Tring]

I went to Eton, mate. I was delivering the groceries there.

[DulwichFox]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> I went to Eton, mate. I was delivering the

> groceries there.

Ah.. Eton Mess. ?

Foxy.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Come on Sue.. You are a lot Posher than me..

>

> I'm as common as muck :)

>

> I went to William Penn School.

>

> Foxy

So now a) I'm "posher than you" - because I went to some other school than you did?

and b) I'm a snob - because I suggest that your idea of what a market should be would not work in East Dulwich?

Suppose we return this discussion to facts relating to the North Cross Road market and the roadworks? Because I'm getting a tad annoyed at your ridiculous assumptions.

[maxxi]

Back to LL at the end of NthX Rd and passing by one sees the Conway F*ck-Nuttery Circus is hard at work ripping up the surface of half of LL (from the Post Office to the gym) with the professionalism you'd expect if they'd all arrived in a clown car.

Their traffic management is from the Chuckle Brothers School of lane closures with hapless helmetted clowns yelling "Don't stop there!!" at bus drivers allowing passengers off at a stop only recently reopened after a four month closure - a delay meaning the northbound traffic meets them head on and the clowns scurry about moving cones to allow two way traffic (briefly).

Wish that popcorn stand on NthX was open - now is the perfect time for it.

[first mate]

Whaaaaat? This could be a great opportunity for a feasibility study as to whether we need to let any traffic through LL ...........ever.

[Grok]

I agree with Foxy. Another waste of time and money started by The Tinker Man aka JB.

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> I'm sick to death with the amount of money being

> spent to enhance the so called market..

>

> It seems to be the most important issue in East

> Dulwich over recent years..

>

> With its Red Brick paving.. Road closures ..

> Elevated paving .. and now Gates being

> installed...

>

> There are more important issues in the area.

>

> DF

[Grok]

Sue wrote

> Do you honestly think a market like the ones at,

> say, the Elephant or East Street would be

> appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?

>

Why is that, Sue, because they're not white middle class? Shameful.

[Sue]

Grok Wrote:

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> Sue wrote

> > Do you honestly think a market like the ones

> at,

> > say, the Elephant or East Street would be

> > appropriate in East Dulwich in 2015?

> >

> Why is that, Sue, because they're not white middle

> class? Shameful.

Because it's a totally different demographic. Why label the people of SE22 as "white middle class"? That's not what I see. Why label them at all?

Why is what I said shameful? It's a fact.

If you imported the Elephant market to North Cross Road, do you think it would do well? Or do you think a market like the one presently in North Cross Road would thrive beneath the Elephant shopping centre?

If not, why is what I said shameful? Please explain.

I moved to East Dulwich in 1991, when there were several fruit and veg shops around, a newsagent and cobbler in North Cross Road, a shop with old prams outside in Lordship Lane, no decent pubs, etc etc.

The gentrification began soon afterwards, in my view with the opening of the Blue Mountain in North Cross Road.

I have seen the area change around me over the past nearly quarter of a century. I don't think all the changes are for the better, but change happens and we must accept it.

So, again. Please explain why what I said is shameful. Preferably without bringing skin colour into it and implying that is what I meant. Thanks.

[Administrator]

Please discuss the roadworks in Lordship Lane at end of North Cross Road and not each others' opinions about class, gentrification etc etc.

[Sue]

Thanks admin

ETA: Perhaps Grok would either like to continue the discussion in the lounge, or else PM me and explain his (or her) post.

[DulwichFox]

maxxi Wrote:

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> Back to LL at the end of NthX Rd and passing by

> one sees the Conway F*ck-Nuttery Circus is hard at

> work ripping up the surface of half of LL (from

> the Post Office to the gym) with the

> professionalism you'd expect if they'd all arrived

> in a clown car.

>

> Their traffic management is from the Chuckle

> Brothers School of lane closures with hapless

> helmetted clowns yelling "Don't stop there!!" at

> bus drivers allowing passengers off at a stop only

> recently reopened after a four month closure - a

> delay meaning the northbound traffic meets them

> head on and the clowns scurry about moving cones

> to allow two way traffic (briefly).

>

> Wish that popcorn stand on NthX was open - now is

> the perfect time for it.

North Cross was supposed to be closed last night yet as I crossed it late last night a small Conways van

came out at speed onto LL. with no lights on forcing me to leap (Yes Leap) out of the way to avoid being run over.

Now the entire block of shops/flats from N.C. Road to Shawbury is now clad in scaffolding.

Probably needs to be up to a certain standard before M&S can open..

Foxy

[worldwiser]

For some reason (what a shocker) the council are stalling without explanation on the FOI request. As soon as anything comes through, I'll post it here.

[first mate]

Worldwiser, good, please keep the pressure on.

[worldwiser]

Ok.. a mere 15 weeks after making the FOI request, we finally have some responses. They didn't even apologise or explain the delay. I've cut and pasted into my original request (marked >>) but the headlines are:

-Southwark thought this was an excellent way to spend 150-190k (not sure which is the actual figure)

-No-one other than Conway was asked to quote for this because they're currently the contractor for everything

-They delivered the project 10 weeks late on a 3.5 week job.

2015 Renovation of the entrance to North Cross Road, SE22 - FOI Request dated 02.10.2015

Specifically I would like information on the following areas:

1. The overall total and final cost of this specific scheme of

works to include all consultation, design and final build costs.

>>The overall budget was ?190k and. the estimated costs were ?140,881.96

2. The original quotation cost for these works. Explanation for any

difference.

>>The spend was ?147,577.89, a slight overspend of ?6,695.93, but under

budget ups and downs were

* Design under estimate ?183.71

* Road Safety Audit under estimate ?300.00

* Consultation overspend of ?846.00 (this was not in original estimate

hence overspend)

* Traffic order costs overspend of ?1000

* Relocation of signal equipment overspend ?5,333,64

3. To which contractors this work was put out to tender and what

the quoted costs returned were from each.

>>The Works was carried out under our Highway and Professional Services

Contract, the successful Contractor was ConwayAecom. This is a term

contract for maintenance and project works.

4. The original length of time allowed for these works to be

carried out, as estimated either by the successful contractors or

the council, prior to their inception.

>>The works were planned to start on the 13 July and be completed on the

7 August. The works actually started on 27 July and completed on the 14

October

5. The reasons for why this project was part-suspended or delayed

mid-way through. Any implications to the final cost resulting -

whether up or down.

>>The works were delayed as our Works Contractor had difficulties with

it suppliers, which resulted in works starting on site but not being able

to continue due to the non availability of materials. This has no effect

on the costs to the project or\Council. The works are carried out under a

schedule of rates, not days rates.

6. To what extent landlords of the adjoining retail premises along

Lordship Lane were asked if they'd be willing to contribute or

participate in the scheme. What, if any, consideration was given to

replacing the full width of pavement within the bounds of the works

(this request acknowledges that only part is in public ownership).

Were any discussions held or attempts made to agree an acceptable

division of costs in order to achieve a renovation of the entire

pavement width. What were the results of those attempts? Or if no

attempts were made, the reasons for this.

>>A public consultation was carried out, which included the frontages

(shops) no requests were received to do works on private land.