Take a virtual tour of the new Harris Academy

[kylie6097]

is the school not using london south bank sports ground for this?? it does say on the website in the parents zone they are using this, it is also in the information part, it does say however its for 2009/2010.

[BQC]

Surely its illegal, not to mention unethical to house 900 kids in a structure, with no "immediate" access to outdoor space ? How much school time will it take up being bused the the South Bank for PE ? And what about lunch hour ? Do they have to remain indoors/seated .. ? I just don't get understand how this size building got approved.

[first mate]

It seems fairly clear that the ultimate intention is to use the park because there is not enough room at the school for adequate sports facilities. It has been denied all along that the park would be used for this but I would put good money on the fact that it will be.I think this denial of fairly clear intention gets up a lot of people's noses. I also think the concern of many is that once the Rye gets used a bit for school activities that usage will increase to a lot and this may begin to impinge on the freedoms of other park users. The park is there for all but it was never meant or designed to be a school playing field- or was it, please correct me if I am wrong? The FOPK have already indicated that the park cannot take the heavy usage that would be involved in everyday use of it for football, rugby and other sports involving a lot of people at once. Who would fund the extra upkeep involved with this usage? If sports are played every day does this mean that those parts of the park become no go areas for other users (I am thinking health and safety here)?

I know that Harris Girls uses it a bit- and a number of park users were pretty hacked off with the attitude of some of the girls- but the use is occasional. A boys school probably has a much greater need to get the lads out and running around- my guess is the use by them would increase very quickly.

Before people jump down my throat I am not anti children or anti them using the park, but I am one that feels that a park is not a school playing field. Sports have there place for all the community, but the use is not constant- as it probably would be in this case.

[BQC]

Summed up perfectly Firstmate.

Which takes us back to who on earth gave the go-ahead for this huge school on a tiny sight (triple its predecessor). As someone with 3 young boys & living not 100 yards from the Academy. I use both the park & potentially will the school. I voted to keep the lovely old school building & its size - both have been ignored by Southwark Council. Charter School beckons me thinks .. such a shame.

As the actress said to the Bishop - "Its just to big". ::o

[the-e-dealer]

THERES A FLIPPIN PLAYGROUND !! I can see it from my house!

[intexasatthe moment]

BQC - no surprise re approval.

The sponsors were determined to achieve this number of children ( not economical to run school apparently with lower nos ).

What Harris want ,they get .

Not sure why - sure we'll be told that gov would only supply funding for new school on condition it became an Academy.Not sure this is the whole truth ,and in any case wouldn't confine sponsorship to Harris.

I believe there is a playground ,feel sure kids will get brief break at lunchtime .The school will stagger access.

Feel sure the lunch time will be rushed and inadequate ,partly as a result of this.

Regarding time taken in bussing kids to offsite sports ,Harris said ( in planning statement )that they intended to schedule these sessions next to lunch time and end of day.

All so sad - teachers and children aren't robots ,it's not ok for them to have lunch time reduced ( and it won't be a lunch hour to start with )so that economies of scale can be achieved.

But really ,we shouldn't be speculating amongst ourselves about potential problems of kids using park.

The school's headteacher and SLT will be falling overthemselves to ensure good relations between school and community.

If people want reassurance I suggest they raise it with them

Harris Boys? Academy East Dulwich

Lyall Avenue

Kingswood Estate

London SE21 8QS

Tel: 020 8761 1910

Fax: 020 8761 6566

Email: [email protected]

[kylie6097]

i dont think they could do sports in the park anyway as it would go against the safeguarding procedures that would be and should already be in place.

my step son is due to go there in september and it looks to be very nice, as i understand it they will be using other places such as south bank sports ground, its not made very clear.

[first mate]

kylie6097,

I hope you are right about safeguarding procedures- but I would suggest that your comment about Harris' lack of clarity on sports facilities pinpoints exactly the thing that makes people like me suspicious!

I guess it might be artistic licence, or a kind of slip that reveals the real long-term intentions of the school and planners, but if you look at the 3D animated visuals of the school it begins with a long shot through a vista of trees on Peckham Rye. As we zoom in through the park and trees to the road- the school being over the other side- I notice that there is no fence or gate separating the park and school, it is as though the park is an extension, separated from the school only by the road. I know I'm being far-fetched but......?

[kylie6097]

as far as i see it, the children have to be kept safe and that is not possible to do when they are in a park, safeguarding the children is the main priority!!! there are too many rules in place regarding keeping children safe for them to just use the park, the school would be shut down within weeks. they would have to close the park off to ensure the safety.

i think being that it is a new school, they want to get there reputation up to high standards, there is no way they would use the park.

[Reg Smeeton]

Can we establish some facts.

I believe that when the school is finally 'full' there will be 750 boys up to GCSE (years 7-11) and then a sixth form that will be mixed with the girls academy, so that there will never be 900 boys on site, though there might be 825 boys + 75 girls, for example. Can anyone confirm?

The implication when the plans went through was that there would never actually be 900 onsite, as there would always be groups offsite doing games etc. What's the reality?

[intexasatthe moment]

I was going to suggest asking the school ,but thought I'd check the funding agreement between the sponsor and sec of state first.

It says "The Harris Boy's Academy East Dulwich has an agreed admission number of 150 pupils. The Harris Boy's Academy East Dulwich will accordingly admit at least 150 boys in the relevant age group each year if sufficient applications are received."

www.dcsf.gov.uk/foischeme/_documents/DfES_FoI_595.pdf

This

The boys? academy won?t fill all at once ? it will start with a Year 7 form and build its student body a year at a time, reaching 750 students with a 200-place sixth form by 2015.

is from a Southwark fact sheet

www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_33741.doc

[thebeard]

One thing is for sure if H+S say it's safe to have 1200 they will sardine them in right up to the full capacity.

A bit like Sainsbury?s battling to build 20,000 sqm store only to expand it to 30,000 sqm a couple of years later.

All the rules numbers and promises are there to be exceeded and broken.

FACT

The only reason this was given planning is because it saves in the short term the local authority money, money which they can spend on nice offices and a few extra council staff to shuffle paper around the nice new offices and achieve very little.

This is a glowing example of local authority shortsightedness self serving (after all they won?t need to manage or maintain it).

The sad thing is that doing this on the cheap means the kids will not have the facilities they could and should have.

There is no though for 100 years from now just how can we pay the least and make it work for the next 10, These professionals think (we can knock it down and build something else and keep ourselves busy until our retirement).

think about it

Eaton

Harrow

Dulwich Colledge etc etc

All been around for well over 100 years because they were build to last forever with plent of land.

State schools knocked down and rebuild every 30 ? 50 years.

[intexasatthe moment]

Absolutely agree The Beard.

And the para following the one I quoted above says

" The Harris Boys'Academy may set a higher admission number as its Published Admission Number for any specific year "

But ,of course no need to worry about that because they have to consult first - which means lots of money and time before they go ahead and do what they like.

As I've had pointed out to me( by a Director of Education /Families /whatever ,"consulting " over whether a school should become an Academy )

" A consultation isn't a rolling ballot.You can't just vote for what you want ."

[James Barber]

I believe this school is costing ?30M to build and open with the land provided free by Southwark Council. That isn't a small amount of money or land opportunity cost to me.

Harrow, Eton and Dulwich College I'm sure have large areas of playing fields but importantly they were contructed a long time ago in then rural areas. Buying farmland then would have been cheap. To create such playing fields in East Dulwich would need either Peckham Rye Park or Common to be handed over to a school or compulsory purchasing many many hundreds or thousands of homes. Which might well reduce the need for a new school. Allowing Harris Boys to use the common would result in a very similar amount of playing fields for local boys. So in my mind we have the ingredients its just having the local will to use them together.

Admissions numbers. I'd be surprised if they would'nt need to reapply for planning permission to change the numbers.

I'd be amazed if a planning committee agreed to an increase when the original evidence and subsequent research suggests 750 is optimal numbers. Some bigger schools are being subdivided into smaller units of this size. I went to a comp that had twice these numbers - close to 2,000. Great for being lost in the crowd. Not good to ensure every child progresses well.

[Mick Mac]

Can we ask to what school our local Liberal Democrat Councillors send/sent their children to?

[intexasatthe moment]

Admissions numbers. I'd be surprised if they would'nt need to reapply for planning permission to change the numbers

Why would you be amazed ?

No mention of it being a requirement in funding agreement .

[the-e-dealer]

The accomodation specs have nothing to do this Planning they are Department of Education specs.

[thebeard]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I believe this school is costing ?30M to build and

> open with the land provided free by Southwark

> Council. That isn't a small amount of money or

> land opportunity cost to me.

IT is all part of the ongoing (I think since the mid 1950?s) State educational experiment; everything from the number of pupils in a class/school to syllabus changes every year/term.

?30,000,000 (30 million) is only the value of around 80 houses in a short Peckham street in the grand scheme not very much money at all.

Or

For the 750 pupils it equates to just ?1,000 for each pupil for each year over a conservative 40year life for the school.

The biggest costs are the staff and running costs etc

Should local councils be building of funding schools like Eaton Harrow or Dulwich College no, but they shouldn?t be shoehorning schools onto small sites either.

Shouldn?t local authorities be looking at grander projects and look towards a grand plan.

If they have then great.

But it doesn?t look that way here.

Edit as just read the thread " incident on east dulwich road (abuse from kids) "

Harris academy girls mentioned.

I?m having second thoughts about these kids even have windows at school. ;).

What is going on with kids today.

[intexasatthe moment]

Just thinking ,what could a planning committee do if they were unhappy about a proposed increase in admissions numbers ?

Ask for the planning permission to be revoked and the school knocked down?

[Cathyg1947]

How did they get planning permission for this monstrosity? Friern Road School wasn't brilliant but at least it fitted in to the skyline. It's absolutely hideous.

[James Barber]

Hi intexasatthe moment,

IF a planning application is submitted it can be refused by planning committees. Refusal can be appealed to the Secretary of State by the applicant.

Hi Cathyg1947,

The architectural and planning officer advice was that the aesthetics were ok. I seemed to recall asking the applicant around dull facade but the answers and officer answers were helpful. Having seen its unfinished backside I'm keen to see that the completed building will actually when completed be ok.

[intexasatthe moment]

James - I appreciate that planning applications can be rejected .

Harris have ,in their funding agreement for this building ,a clause which allows them ,subject to " consultation " ( my inverted commas ) to increase the number of admissions for any year.

One of the bodies to be consulted is Southwark.

You raised the idea that this would involve the planning department .

I am baffled by your remarks about planning department and rejecting planning applications - we are talking about a building that is nearly complete ,a school that already has it's first year of entry and a funding agreement that sets out how the school will operate and the legal framework within which it does so.

Harris' ability to "ask " for an increase in admissions numbers is ongoing ,not something that just applied during the planning process.

The clause refers to increasing admissions numbers for " any specific year " - so I imagine it is there to allow the school to admit any special cases - maybe statemented children or someone who has won a place by appeal ,over and above the official number. I doubt - but don't know - that it is there to allow a huge jump in admission numbers.

[James Barber]

Hi intexasatthe moment,

The planning application stated a number of pupils.

Gonig above that number would be a breach of the planning application and council officers would enforce the planning application.

Whatever other processes Harris would wish to take regarding pupuil numbers. For this school with its actual planning permission it has a maximum number of pupils.

Harris Peckham Academy is reducing its number of places by two forms of entry per year.

I'm amazed no parent of a boys at the temporary site hasn't said anything on this forum.

[intexasatthe moment]

James -I don't want to take up your time ,know lots of other issues to deal with ,so this post is really just to clarify.

When I first saw this

" The Harris Boys'Academy may set a higher admission number as its Published Admission Number for any specific year "

in the Funding Agreement that defines how the school is run ,I was shocked .

Which is why I posted it here.

Having given it thought I have reached the conclusion that it's existence is probably nothing to worry about - as I said I'm guessing it's there to enable entry to year groups for certain isolated cases where admission is required despite that year group having reached its defined max nos.

If I'd worked that out earlier ,assuming I'm right ,I wouldn't have mentioned it - rather wish I hadn't.

But the clause is there and its existence means that the maxium number can be exceeded.

And I'm afraid that the cynic in me wonders what action Southwark could take in enforcing any breach of planning with regard to this ,or any ,school.The ultimate sanction of closing the school ?

[the-e-dealer]

Hmm lets work out the odds. Likely to be a successful school if its over subscribed. So they let in say an extra 20 one year. Would the Council close a successful school? unlikely.