A bunch of lying bastards........

[Alan Medic]

Good lad. Leave the fox alone.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-bunch-of-lying-bastards--brian-may-and-paul-mccartney-hit-out-at-david-camerons-cruel-and-unnecessary--bid-to-bring-back-fox-hunting-10380869.html

[Louisa]

AM when it comes to the cruelty of fox hunting, the EDF crew could learn a lesson or two. Poor old foxy can't even go for a quiet break to Turkey without being hunted and flushed out on here.

Brian May is such a lovely compassionate man, he speaks a lot of sense.

Louisa.

[Alan Medic]

Don't start that again Louisa. Your old foxy behaved like a child who had his dummy taken away. He finally found an alternative in another user name to feed his habit. Comparing that to fox hunting isn't even remotely funny.

[Blah Blah]

A majority of people in this country think fox hunting is cruel. A majority of MPs voted to ban it (and rightly so imo).

"The current law permits two hounds to flush out a fox to be shot but the changes would allow particular sorts of hunting for pest-control purposes."

There is no aspect of fox hunting that can be described as a from of pest control. And people who organise hunts know this. It's just BS because they can't actually give any sensible reason for their need to mount horses and go rampaging over the countryside several times a year. I grew up around people like that. They think they have a divine right to behave how they like.

[LooseChippings]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't start that again Louisa. Your old foxy

> behaved like a child who had his dummy taken away.

> He finally found an alternative in another user

> name to feed his habit. Comparing that to fox

> hunting isn't even remotely funny.

This userName is 3 years old and was set up for reasons I have already explained and has not

been used until I needed to talk with admin.

Admin have not been able to resolve the problems with the dulwichfox account

And emails sent were treated as Spam by Windows Live Mail.

I cannot see spam folders from IOS so will have to wait till I get back to the UK.

To say acting like a child is a bit unfair but I will resist any

temptation to sling insults back at you .

I'm a reasonable fellow.

DulwichFox

[uncleglen]

From the Shropshire star

paulwoo51177866

May 26, 2015 11:09

Well as a landowner here are a few a few local facts from the two hunts that cross over our property area and by the way I am not a hunt supporter never have been and never will be..... but. The two hunts in our area are nothing to do with so called Toffs. Most participants I know are actually what I call ordinary people. Not even the landowners who are my neighbours are involved. Since the ban our lamb deaths per season had gone up 400% to the point that at great expense we have had to build a new lambing shed as a security to ensure we get a return. We no longer keep chickens due to constant intrusion and death and no real secure way off fending off the foxes. I have no gun licence but very obvious now is the number of dead foxes on the side of the road that have been shot by people. They are a regular feature. We do not allow the Hunts on our land but what has become evident is how brazen the Fox has become with little or no conflict in the countryside to the point that they are a regular sight in the smaller towns and villages in the area cheesing a awful lot of people off in the process. Opinion has changed greatly in my local area and I do wonder how long before we see a wider change in the public view. I am not a supporter as I say but I certainly will not bat an eyelid when I pass a dead one on the side of the road.

[aquarius moon]

Shooting a fox dead with a gun to protect farm animals is not the same as chasing it for hours with a pack of hounds just to have the pleasure of seeing it ripped apart.

[Otta]

Indeed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I just don't understand why Cameron is looking to reopen this divisive debate. Putting aside the cruelty of hunting with dogs, politically, it seems a rather strange move. What a ridiculous priority to set so early in the new parliament.

[Louisa]

He needs to reward the base rural base tory support which has been there through the dark years of Blair. Think he needs to realise we've had this debate and they lost it, move on and talk about the big issues facing the country. The tories just can't helps themselves.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> Shooting a fox dead with a gun to protect farm

> animals is not the same as chasing it for hours

> with a pack of hounds just to have the pleasure of

> seeing it ripped apart.

Exactly. If a fox is being a nuisance to livestock, a shotgun is a viable (and more humane) means of pest control. The number of foxes killed by hunts was pretty low anyway in comparison to the number of foxes causing problems - so how exactly were those other foxes dealt with? There is NO justification for the hunt as a means of pest control.

And yes hunts are made up of a variety of local people uncleglen, not all of them upper class etc, but they are still a group of rural people who think they can do what they like with no regard for the cruelty of the means they sometimes use. There is a reason why we have regulations and standards around the keeping/ rearing/ slaughter of livestock for example.

On the politics show on Friday there was an MP and a country alliance spokesperson and the attitude of the CA person was to laugh at pretty much every point the MP made in opposition. This is the attitude of these people. They regularly say that only country people know what's best for the country and that everyone else's view can be dismissed on those grounds.

Nobody either ever talks about the horses that get injured during hunts. Things like stress fractures and strains to the fetlock ligament (the sort of things that can make a horse lame). It's bad for horses too. My parents have never let any of their horses take part in a hunt for those reasons.

Totally agree Louisa. It smacks of not wanting to upset the shire Tory heartlands. Realising the chances of an overturn of the ban succeeding are nil, they have chosen an ammendment that might succeed to placate both the Tory backbenchers and the CA at the same time, so Cameron can say he has delivered on his manifesto promise to them.

It's an ammendment that effectively will relax the existing ban. At present only two hounds can be used along with stalking to flush out prey. The ammendment removes that two dog cap to 'any number deemed suitable for the terrain and to efficiently carry out the activity'. Now for me, even if horses aren't chasing, this opens the door for hounds to be the method of kill, rather than a shotgun, or better still, a tranquilzer dart.

Full draft of ammendment here.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2015/9780111137628/pdfs/ukdsi_9780111137628_en.pdf

[stringvest]

I think fox hunting should be banned altogether its an old fashioned barbaric bloodsport. They say it's pest control, but they are not constantly hunting them, they have a closed season to allow them to breed so they've got some to hunt when the time comes. Its not "ordinary" people, its people with land and money who can afford a stabled horse, all the regalia and tack and fancy silver stirrup cups and chalices etc.

The people Ive seen on TV moaning that their chickens have been attacked, have rickety old sheds with holes in the boards etc ... not secure at all.

They can ban horse racing too, while I am at it : 2 year old horses bones aren't developed properly so to put them in a race ... is like putting a tot in a 100 metres hurdles then having shot because its a failure, then there are NURSE MARE FARMS, where some old nag is impregnated, her foal taken and shot to make way for her to feed a pedigree horse, so the pedigree mother can recover and get pregnant again with the next Desert Orchid ..... BAD !!! Thanks.

[Blah Blah]

My parents own land and keep horses and have a riding school there, which pays for the upkeep of the horses. And sometimes it's a struggle financially. So it's not always true that landowners are flush with money. I do agree regarding chickens though. My parents have hens (and one rooster) and they roam free during the day and at dusk they go into their hen houses which are inside purpose built pens that are fox proof. They've never lost a hen to a fox.

Horse racing and breeding is a brutal business. I share your views on it.

[Otta]

They've shelved the vote.

[Otta]

At least until they can take away the Scottish vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547

[Loz]

Sturgeon has somewhat shot herself in the foot. She's just given Cameron more justification for pushing EVEL through.

[ratty]

Justification? 80% of the public are anti fox hunting apparently. Where's the justification? I think he has just proven to the public that EVEL has a huge downside too.

Also shows he is a snide coont that will do anything to manipulate the vote.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree that Sturgeon should have kept out of it.

[Loz]

ratty Wrote:

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> Justification? 80% of the public are anti fox hunting apparently. Where's the justification? I

> think he has just proven to the public that EVEL has a huge downside too.

As I've said before, I really don't care about fox hunting. It's very very low on my list of important issues. For the want of a better phrase, I don't have a dog in that fight.

It's worth noting though that the law that was proposed would bring it roughly into line with that in Scotland. Yep, that fox-hunting Scotland that has been governed by the SNP since 2011.

Sturgeon has just signalled that she will intervene in England-only issues when she can make political capital for SNP/Scotland. As EVEL was falling off the agenda, she's just made the case to put it back on. (Though hopefully with a better solution than the appalling mess they were trying to push through.)

[Blah Blah]

To be fair though, those SNP MPs were democratically elected to Westminster under the system we have, the same system that allows a majority Conservative governement with a minority of the population voting for them. Cameron may want to call foul because he now is beginning to realise the problem with slim majorities, but seeking a way to take away the vote of the SNP is not about democracy, it's about finding a way to skew parliamentary voting in his favour. Scotland has a seperate parliament. If he wants to go down the route of a seperate English parliament, then he may as well break up the Union and send everyone their seperate ways.

[Loz]

I think an English parliament (or maybe a number of English parliaments) is the next logical step. The West Lothian Question is a constitutional anomaly that really can't go on.

[Saffron]

Cameron swam out of his depth and got smacked by a fish because of the foxes.

[Blah Blah]

But Loz, devolution came about from pressure by the Scottish and Welsh themselves. It was a concession given to keep them as part of the UK. Do the English want an England only parliament? I don't see that at all. Anyone who opposes the government probably wants the SNP to shake things up. Those who support the Conservatives (a minority) probably want the SNP gone. It's all very well commentators accusing them of playing politics, but every party does that. That's how they get us to vote for them.

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Do the English want an England only parliament? I don't see that at all.

This poll is over six months old (so pre-election), but pretty conclusive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29880995

Personally, I'd like to see four more parliaments - roughly SE, SW, Midlands and the North.

[stringvest]

Fox hunting is disgusting and should be banned. Sort of person who would engage in such activity would enjoy an illegal dog fight perhaps. I thought it was going to totally banned years ago and replaced with scent following, not get left with this "two dogs to flush out a fox to be humanely despatched" unenforceable hogwash ... how does anyone in the middle of hunt with 20 hyped up bloodthirsty hounds, stop eighteen of them and send in two to "play nicely" ?????? ridiculous.

I don't know why the Scottish are getting a say in our stuff, when we don't have any say in theirs. I like Scotland to visit but wouldn't have cared if they got independence, and pay for their own tuition fees, elderly care and prescriptions like wot we do !! :-{ Is Hadrian's wall still there? :-)