Daily Mail readers show their true colours

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> People don't commit suicide because their home

> town has changed. Tony, I put it to you that this

> person was mentally ill.

Jeremy. I know of several elderly Women, personally, in The Isle Of Dogs, Walworth and The Elephantand Castle who, while not suicidal, are desperately sad that "their" areas have changed beyond recognition to the extent that even, food-wise,they feel they are no longer catered for. Its a sad ending to the last few years of their lives as these Ladies are in their Late 70's and beyond. They have seen their areas change from one decade to another and the proportion of people of their Culture brcomes less and less, which is undeniable in some areas.

Jeremy:What is your proposed solution to counteract the decline of british culture, and ensure the preservation of communities?

Communities WILL be preserved. They will often be new Communities full of people who choose to live amongst theor own people culturally. I see London becoming extremely polarised over the next 30/40 years with a few "trendy" White Middle-Class Areas remaining surrounded by areas whichcontain largely 2nd/3rd/4th/5th Generation immigrant Families.

That must happen, I would say.

Most Working-Class White families want to move away from Inner London for multi-farius reasons, not in every case connected with losing their Cultural identity in Inner London, though. However many will move for that reason.

I see The Home Counties and Suburbs and The Country Areas being predominantly "White" and The Inner parts of our Cities not being so.

Just like almost every USA City, in fact.

British Culture will not, necessarrily decline, but will be different from area to area.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Sherwick Wrote:

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> Someone who commits suicide obviously has

> problems. IN any case, if she hated Southall so

> much, why did she choose to live there year after

> year?

Why did she choose to live there year after year?

Firstly we do NOT know it was by "choice" she may not have been able to have afforded to move.

More importantly what do you suggest Sherwick she should have done if she did not like the way her area was becoming?

[*Bob*]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> My point is that while this is an extreme example,

> many hundreds of thousands of other people have

> left London or feel isolated now in "parts" of

> London as they feel the Culture that they enjoyed

> throughout their life has been diluted and in some

> cases, virtually, disappearred altogether

> "bob"....

I wouldn't entirely disagree with that, Tony. But at the same time, many more hundred of thousands haven't left London and don't feel isolated in such 'parts'.

I appreciate it's different for older people to accept change to the demographics of their neighbourhood, but this is why, as Whitney Houston so beautifully put it, the children are our future.

Similarly, poverty is a breeding-ground for 'them' and 'us' attitudes. I'm told that even in America, in affluent neighbourhoods, black and white live side by and side 'on the piano' and chat about their gardens over the white picket fences.

[Sherwick]

What else is there to do other than move?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Even in "affluent" areas "bob" there is, often, a Cultural divide.

These people are usually decent and well educated and can, happily, get on well with everybody at work etc.

But many still choose to live with areas who share the same Cultural background.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Sherwick Wrote:

What else is there to do other than move?

TLS: O.K. but can you not see that a multitude of other White Working-Class people have also chosen to move since the 1970's onwards for similar reasons, as they saw their area rapidly changing and foresaw a time when it would change beyond recognition? ( as HAS happened in many Inner London Areas)...

These were NOT the most affluent of people and have not all moved out because they suddenly discovered more "space" out of Town, though some have.

99% of the 7 Million Londoners were White in 1965 so where do you think they or their offspring have all moved to? and why?

They are not all dead, you know...

Or do you, genuinely, think the majority of them moved out, all independently of each other, because they realised that there was more space outside the Inner City?

[Sherwick]

A quick couple of questions for you Tony:

1. Which specific communities have moved from 99% white to majority non-white in the last 40 or 50 years?

2. Of these specific communities, which of these existed over 150 years ago, i.e. which of these communities had significant numbers of people there? For example, in Southall 150 years ago, there were only less than 1000 houses in total. 200 years ago in Southall there were less than 500 houses. Therefore, in many instances, we aren't talking about communities that have been there 'for ever'. Likewise, Southall may have a majority Sikh population now, but in 150 years time that could all change.

[Sherwick]

"99% of the 7 Million Londoners were White in 1965 so where do you think they or their offspring have all moved to? and why?"

Have they and their offspring all moved then? I could have sworn that I saw a white person in Dulwich Village last week. Must have been dreaming...

And once again you use the '99%' number - where did it come from this time? Your imagination again?

[Sherwick]

I'll just point out that a mere 250 years ago the USA was mainly brown.

Now it's mainly white.

In 100 years from now it will likely be mainly tan.

People move from one area to another and from one country or continent to another - and move even more these days compared to 250 or even 50 years ago. Cultural makeups of regions and countries are constantly shifting. It is inevitable.

[Sherwick]

So Tony, your solution is 'Communities WILL be preserved.'

How?

[onvisa]

The answer to this is simple, If you don't like how your 'area' is leave. If you're so racist that people of a different colour skin upset you then move to an area that will embracwe your racist unfounded ridiculous point of view.

What's that you say there isn't any 'areas' like that? Well maybe it is time to work out with who the problem lies.

Being old/living somewhere for a long time/not understanding another culture/being white is no excuse for racism.

[Jeremy]

Personally I have never really felt such a strong association with a place that I would get so upset if it changed (and still stay there regardless).

I think - with respect - that it's a slightly outdated concept, because people move around so much more these days. People move between the city, suburbs and countryside to suit their lifestyles. People move overseas for work or for new experiences. The community spirit Tony remembers from his youth doesn't really exist anymore, populations are transient, and it's not just because of immigration.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

onvisa Wrote:

Being old/living somewhere for a long time/not understanding another culture/being white is no excuse for racism.

This conversation has centred around the change in one's Culture NOT "colour". There, is, of course, a correlation, but we are discussing a cultural change, as in parts of Leicester being totally Asian, now, for example.

Thats what White Guys did in those parts of Leicester. THey moved. They may NOT have been "racist" but they, almost certainly, felt "strangers" in the neighbourhoods where Generations of their families previously lived with other people of their Culture.

There is not one person who has entered this Debate who has suggested that anyone has any right to be "racially prejudiced" or "racist" in any way.

No one here is making any excuses for "racist" behaviour, it does not belong anywhere in a civilised Society.

If you are talking about anyone bemoaning the loss of their Culture in some UK Areas and seeing this phenomenon increase then thats totally different and I, for one, DO bemoan that onvisa.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Jeremy Wrote:

Personally I have never really felt such a strong association with a place that I would get so upset if it changed (and still stay there regardless).

TLS:I'm different. All my Father's 7 Brothers and Sisters lived near each other in various parts of Peckham and that applied to many families back in THe 1950's/1960's. Also I lived on Council Estates when I grew up and we all knew each other and, generally, helped each other ( if a neighbour was ick, the other Women would always do their shopping etc).

We were mostly in each other houses and shared a similar Cultural bond and had everything in common ( making allowances for individual tastes). So having been brought up in that World and see the great benefits that brings, I bemoan its loss.

Jeremy:I think - with respect - that it's a slightly outdated concept, because people move around so much more these days. People move between the city, suburbs and countryside to suit their lifestyles. People move overseas for work or for

> new experiences. The community spirit Tony remembers from his youth doesn't really exist anymore, populations are transient, and it's not just because of immigration.

TLS: There's a great deal of truth in that and yet, on THursday, when I travel to East Grinstead, I still note a real Community Spirit there in the various local activities that people partake in, whether it be Bridge or Chess etc..

[ontheedge]

Tony thought you were heading up to London you better get a move on befores it gets dark

[Tony.London Suburbs]

ontheedge Wrote:

Tony thought you were heading up to London you better get a move on befores it gets dark

The Sun has not only gone down on The British Empire but it has disappearred, today, in The Suburbs.

So if you think I'm going down to Greenwich and getting that riverboat now today you are mistaken.:)

"Gets dark" you are a hoot! I'll show that comment to my Black Jamaican Ladyfriend who lives with me when she comes downstairs, we'll have a right laugh together....you are a card...(tu)

[taper]

London's ethnic minority population according to the 1971 census was about 8%. So it looks like Tony made up his 99% figure, again.

Oswald Moseley;s Blackshirts had their HQ in the Walworth Road in the 1930s.

[Sherwick]

99% of statistics are made up on the spot, no?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper Wrote:

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> London's ethnic minority population according to

> the 1971 census was about 8%. So it looks like

> Tony made up his 99% figure, again.

Can you show me please taper?

>

> Oswald Moseley;s Blackshirts had their HQ in the

> Walworth Road in the 1930s.

Walworth Road was also the Home Of The Labour Party and had its National Headquarters there, until recently so whats the point?

We have had a Far-Right Organisation based there and a Left-Wing Party based there and...?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper Wrote:

London's ethnic minority population according to the 1971 census was about 8%. So it looks like Tony made up his 99% figure, again.

I will be fascinated to see that as in The 1960's during my youth it was so rare, in the heart of South London, no less, to see anyone other than a White person that people used to point out, ignorantly, Non-White people out in the street.

That does NOT accord with Non-Whites being anywhere near 2% let alone 8%.

One would travel ONE WEEK to another in South London and only see White faces.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm increasingly reminded of teh old SoccerAm sketch which had a spoof Yorkshire news bulletin from t'70s which finished each report with the phrase

"And another reason why.. Change Is NOT Good"

[gallinello]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> TLS:I'm different. All my Father's 7 Brothers and

> Sisters lived near each other in various parts of

> Peckham and that applied to many families back in

> THe 1950's/1960's. Also I lived on Council Estates

> when I grew up and we all knew each other and,

> generally, helped each other ( if a neighbour was

> ick, the other Women would always do their

> shopping etc).

>

> We were mostly in each other houses and shared a

> similar Cultural bond and had everything in common

> ( making allowances for individual tastes). So

> having been brought up in that World and see the

> great benefits that brings, I bemoan its loss.

TLS, me ol' China!

You truly are the one and only honest Communist on this site. Your descriptions of communities based on solidarity and mutual aid and co-operation bring a tear to the eye.

But, unfortunately you and I both know that your next posting will contain some Maggie-loving, union-bashing/baiting, crypto-racist ( inspite of your relentless mentioning of the 'Black Jamaican Ladyfriend' and all your black friends!) torture-extolling rabid rant.

Still for the time being, let us all savour 'nice Tony's' sympathetic, sentimental trip down Memory Lane....

God Bless Ya Mate!

[taper]

And welling was the BNP's headquarters until recently.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

gallinello Wrote:

TLS, me ol' China! You truly are the one and only honest Communist on this site. Your descriptions of communities based

on solidarity and mutual aid and co-operation bring a tear to the eye.

tls:I'v been telling everyone who would only listen that I'm the only true Socialist on here, so its music to my ears that someone, finally, understands me and cares gally! I'm feeling moist writing this myself M8....

galli: But, unfortunately you and I both know that your next posting will contain some Maggie-loving, union-bashing/baiting, crypto-racist ( inspite of your relentless mentioning of the 'Black Jamaican Ladyfriend' and all your black friends!)

torture-extolling rabid rant.

tls: You've gone and spoilt it all now, My Son! sigh..

What I do NOT like gal ( I know you won't mind my Cockney familiarity) is piss-takers! You know the type NON-Diamond Geezers..like the lazy, good-for-nothing Workers that I saw having a permanent "Giraffe" when I worked in Fleet Street, but we know Maggie sorted them out.

I'm sorry that I liked Maggie, as I know she backed Britain and put her first, so, naturally, that did upset Guys like you.

It WAS a weird concept, admittedly, a Prime Minister who supported and loved Britain, but she was strange one was our blessed Margeret.

Who was next on your list? Ah! "crypto" racists...not keen on 'em at all, indeed any kind of racist....now people who support Britain and adhere to traditional British customs and Culture, well I bally love 'em I do, I tells thee!

Last we had "torture" mentioned. Well we are back to the piss=takers again aren't we?

See I like nice, decent honourable people. Don't like Human filth or their supporters . Don't like Guys who ruin the lives of others, make neighbourhoods a dangerous place to live, are generally nasty pieces of work so I don't care what happens to them but would prefer, if you don't mind, awfully, if they were kept away from all the nice, lovely people that comprise the majority of Society of all Races and Creeds.

So to summarise me gal me old fruit me no likey pisstakers, whether they are career criminals or lazy buggers protected by their Union. Not keen on Guys who racially discriminate either gal..yougetmebruv?

galli: Still for the time being, let us all savour 'nice Tony's' sympathetic, sentimental trip down Memory Lane....

God Bless Ya Mate!

Thats The Spirit Gazza me Son:)-D

btw: I leave the rabid rants to others on here, you'll get to know them, in time My Boy...

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper, I really am intrigued to see this 1971 London consensus that showed the "8%" you mentioned.

Have you relocated yet, please?