BNP - first euro seat

[Keef]

I remember when Tony first signed up, I thought exactly the same thing. No longer do though Tony.

look at the responses to the New X murder thread and then ask yourself if the BNP getting an seat is really that much of a surprise

Agreed.

[Keef]

Biggest worry is that UKIP came second overall. This country really is going to end up getting what it deserves!

I'm looking in to opportunities of working abroad!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Nor am I satisfied with any kind of argument which says "Labour ignored core voters needs for years so we can't be surprised if they vote BNP"

WTF???

the argument ""Labour ignored core voters needs for years so we can't be surprised if they vote Tory/libdem/independant/green " I can get

When did core labour voters decide that if the current government wasn't providing social houseing/adequate healthcare that the way forward was a bunch of fascists? There is no excuse - NONE - for anyone voting for BNP. You can cry, you can set yourself on fire, you can vote Tory you can pretty much do whatever you need to do - but vote BNP? Labour can't be blamed for that.. that's on the individual voter (and yes I am treating houses with English flags with more suspicion today)

[Michael Palaeologus]

It is up to Labour to provide a credible offer to the voters to draw them away from the BNP. It would seem (from the BBC) that the BNP voters came from Labour's traditional demographic. It would also seem that, as all of the Westminster parties are smeared by sleaze and in-fighting, voters were going for non-traditional parties or not voting at all.

This left the door wide open to the BNP - they offer simplistic solutions to non-existent problems and fears based on people's baser instincts. No doubt the BNP were working hard to turn out their supporters. The big parties are responsible for creating a malaise that caused their support to stay at home.

Individuals are responsible for their voting habits, the Parties significantly influence those habits.

[Keef]

Well that's a bit of a stereotype Sean! I was agreeing with every word til that last sentence.

Don't get me wrong, I mean by all means, treat the entire Brook estate in Eltham with as much suspicion as you like, I'm pretty sure you'd be spot on. But the nice old man living next door to me, he's just English and likes footy.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper Wrote:

Tony I've replied to that reference on the other thread. I thought initially your preoccupation with race related issues was similarly suspicious. But you have long since shown yourself to be a sagacious and creative commentator on a range of issues.

Thats really nice for you to say that taper.

I appreciate that coming from you.

Thank You.

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When did core labour voters decide that if the

> current government wasn't providing social

> houseing/adequate healthcare that the way forward

> was a bunch of fascists? There is no excuse - NONE

> - for anyone voting for BNP.

Ahh... but traditionally core Labour voters don't necessarily subscribe to a left wing ideology. Many traditional Labour voters would have been working class (for want of a better term) people who wanted to make sure that their interests were being looked after... which isn't really the same thing.

The BNP target vulnerable/disenchanted people who feel that their interests are no longer being represented by Labour. They convince them that British people are being forced out of jobs because of immigration. "Don't worry, we're not racist, we just want to look after British people like you". Unfortunately it's a message which seems to resonate in certain sections of society.

Nick Griffin's latest angle makes me especially sick... "we're not racist, it's all those foreigners who come to our country who are the racist ones".

[Sherwick]

+1 Jeremy

[SeanMacGabhann]

Jeremy - agree all the way.

Keef - And you are sure your neighbour isn't TLS? ;-) I was being a bit naughty by including that line but I dunno. You don't need to look at an estate in Eltham. All of the bankers around me who have those flags displayed on their desks.. easily the most likely to come out with something racist. I'm in no position to judge your neighbour but when the IRA were "being busy" I wasn't too minded to fly a tricolor myself... Guilty by association. And once that nonsense all died down I questioned the point of a flag anyway

[blah]

blah

[Sherwick]

I don't understand why people find it so hard to accept that there is a racist underbelly in the UK, just as there is in every other Western democracy.

[woofmarkthedog]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nor am I satisfied with any kind of argument which

> says "Labour ignored core voters needs for years

> so we can't be surprised if they vote BNP"

>

> WTF???

>

> the argument ""Labour ignored core voters needs

> for years so we can't be surprised if they vote

> Tory/libdem/independant/green " I can get

>

> When did core labour voters decide that if the

> current government wasn't providing social

> houseing/adequate healthcare that the way forward

> was a bunch of fascists? There is no excuse - NONE

> - for anyone voting for BNP. You can cry, you can

> set yourself on fire, you can vote Tory you can

> pretty much do whatever you need to do - but vote

> BNP? Labour can't be blamed for that.. that's on

> the individual voter (and yes I am treating houses

> with English flags with more suspicion today)

Sean

English flags or Union jacks ?

W**F

[Marmora Man]

I don't understand why people find it so hard to accept that there is a racist underbelly in the UK, just as there is in every other Western democracy.

I think it probably exists in every society - evolution and culture developed mankind to be protective of its own and suspicious of others.

Knowledge and understanding will overcome the racist mindset - but hectoring and acting appalled at the very thought of its existence won't.

Therefore the proper political response to BNP activities and recent electoral success is to understand how it came about, develop appropriate policies that are more acceptable and expose the true elements of the BNP's manifesto.

[SeanMacGabhann]

@ WMTD

Flags generally I find unsettling - the Irish one for reasons stated

Union Jacks less threatening than English but more patronising. English flag more threatening.

[Jeremy]

I'd never fly/display a flag, I am not particularly patriotic personally.

However, it is rather a shame that people can't display a symbol of patriotism without others assuming that they're also a nationalist.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

English flag more threatening.

I've just returned and I see this comment on an English Website written by someone who has resided in England for a long time, written n The Capital of England and from the person who asked "When WAS England a better place" only today ????

You could NOT make this up Sean!

Maybe when people were proud to wave The English Flag in London, England, I would suggest.....larf...

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere Tony, I just don't know what it is

Are you suggesting I have a problem with the English or England? Because I don't

[*Bob*]

Flags. Who give a toss, to be honest.

Burn them all, I say.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere Tony, I just don't know what it is

Sean, I'm certain you don't have a problem with the English.

I don't understand why you have a problem with people displaying the English Flag in England, thats all.

Heaven only knows what you would think if you ventured to The Suburbs if England (ever!) do well in The European/World Cups again. In many streets in my area every other house proudly flew the Flag and we did not reach The Final.

Every 3rd Car also.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's not that I have a problem with people flying the English flag in England per se

Flags generally are anathema to me. Driving around Ireland I often see flags from that specific county fluttering outside houses. It's a bit "you ain't from around here, we are - be careful sonny. And even then?."

Football tournaments it all goes a bit mental and ubiquitous so it seems odd but in a different way

But as you know well I have lived in various rural and suburbam parts of England so you don't need to worry about me should England do well. They won't. And it's when they don't do well I'm reminded about the weirdness that goes with wrapping oneself in a flag. And once again I'll have to be careful in the vicinity of upset football fans who have confused 11 over played men with some form of national identity and self-worth

But to take the English flag specifically - do you think that the proportion of people who voted BNP this week are more or less likely to have an english flag (or several) prominently displayed in their window and what does that say?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

..should England do well. They won't.

This will be filed and, hopefully, used against you at the first available opportunity. If we do continue to fail then ignore this comment, please...

Sean: Do you think that the proportion of people who voted BNP this week are more or less likely to have an english flag (or several) prominently displayed in their window and what does that say?

They are far more likely, obviously and it displays "their" form of Patriotism and Nationalism however much you and I might feel they are misguided.

Problem is I'm extremely fond of perfidious Albion and would want to wave a Flag in my Car and House, as well without you drawing your own, possibly, incorrect assumptions from that act, Sean.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Knock yourself out Tony. Go flag wild... I promise it won't change my opinion of you in any way

[Sherwick]

I have an England flag, which only comes out for the Ashes! :)

[david_carnell]

Can it not be assumed that as I'm English and a sports fan I'll support my national team without having to resort to mawkish flag-waving to prove my worth?

[Keef]

Of course it can David, but that is a bit superior of you. So bloody what if someone wants to wave a national flag at a sports ground, would you have the same issues with people waving Leeds banners (if anyone can still bring themselves to go to the matches ;-) )?

I loved it a few years back when we were watching England in the world cup in the CPT, and there were loads of St George's hats, and some girls in St George's (tight) tops, it was fecking great! Remember nothing about the match, but know I had a good afternoon, and enjoyed the atmosphere.