Vibrations and noise caused by ramps on EDG

[heartblock]

Somebody posted a leaflet through my door about the noise and vibration caused by the ramp on EDG. I live on this road and it is something I have noticed this year. Once walking past I thought that a cannon had been shot, but it was just a truck with a load of broken paving hitting the road on the off-side of the ramp. My flat is just a few metres away and the walls move when something heavy goes across the bump. So whoever put the leaflet through my door - Thank You for doing something and I will write to the Council and the MP as you suggest. I will also try and record the sound on my phone... it really is quite unbelievably loud! Has anyone else been suffering? I don't think they even slow the traffic either.

[Jah Lush]

Ramps are a complete and utter outrageous waste of public funds. I have one outside my flat and whenever a heavy vehicle goes over it if I'm sitting in bed I can feel the building shake a little.

[heartblock]

Hi Jah, yes I think if the ramp near me actually slowed the traffic it would marginally make-up for the noise pollution and vibrations, but the traffic is heavier and faster on EDG than twenty five years ago and ramps shouldn't be used on bus routes or roads with frequent HGV traffic.

Most traffic on EDG travels above the speed limit despite the useless ramps, except in rush hour and Saturday morning when there is practically a row of standing traffic heading towards the Village end. This must be miserable for the drivers and has to be adding a lot of roadside pollution to pedestrians and residents.

EDG could be made a far better environment for all, if Conway and Southwark planners put a bit more thought into how to change traffic flow through East Dulwich. All the recent roadworks must have cost a fortune, but traffic flow and traffic noise is worse than ever.

I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver and none of the road changes over the last 2 to 3 years have improved my experience as a road user and resident.

That's the end of my Ramp Rant! 😡

[Jah Lush]

Must be worse for you being there. I'm fortunately on what is normally a quiet road but when something heavy goes over the ramp I feel it.

[Drxyster]

I wonder if these ramps/humps have any effect on the settlement or possible subsidence of properties in the vicinity,(South London Clay soil is notorious for this).

Heartblock,you mention the walls move when something heavy goes over the ramp, Jah Lush, you mention you can feel the building shake a little, hopefully neither of you have noticed any cracks appearing in the fabric of the building since the ramps have been installed. As I am sure you are aware any form of underpinning is very expensive and can treble the cost of buildings insurance in the future.

[New Girl]

Heartblock I live on EDG and completely agree. It's awful. The cracks in the walls are starting show in ours and I'm starting to get a tad worried. Is there anything that can be done? The lorries that attack the ramps at speed can be quite the experience. I think these ramps are doing more harm than good. How do we complain to the council? Can we even??

ETA: by saying can we even complain I implied will it all fall on deaf ears and Conway and council not give a monkeys.....?

ETA: I know the answer

[Andrew1011]

If the northern side of Melbourne Grove is closed to traffic you can look forward to more traffic, even that heading to roads like Playfield Crescent, using EDG and so increasing these effects further.

Ask your MP to raise this issue on your behalf. Helen Hayes MP has surgeries on: 1st - today for July (East Duwich Community Centre), 2nd (West Norwood Leisure Centre), 3rd (Brixton Advice Centre) and 4th (Kingswood House) Friday mornings of most months of the year. August is the parliamentary recess so no surgeries then but they resume in September.

You can also write or phone:

http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/helen-hayes/4510

You could also get together with other EDG residents and make a deputation on this to the next Dulwich Community Council, of course.

[TheArtfulDogger]

This happens on all roads in the area with speed bumps and tables.

Maybe worth considering opening it up wider then just one road as I often feel my place shudder when a lorry goes over the hump outside...

[rch]

Part of the problem with that ramp/speed table on EDG by Thorncombe is that it was originally designed to be a raised pedestrian crossing with a pedestrian island in the middle of it to act as a second speed calming measure - you can see where the white paving stones are set in the tarmac to mark the crossing point for pedestrians.

But then the design standards in the blasted new highway guide kicked in and made this extra measure against policy, which is completely mad because a ped island would definitely act as another calming measure along there as well as creating another much-needed crossing point.

So, going back and implementing the ped island there would probably be the most cost-effective way of addressing the speeding at that ramp/table which are creating the noise problems, if you can get cllrs to lobby for this.

But, also, the rainwater drain covers are bashing REALLY LOUDLY when vehicles run over them, because they've sunk into the tarmac as it settled and are not supported properly.

As I was walking along one day in April I was so shocked by the noise generated by the bashing drain cover that I took a photo of the most faulty drain cover (on the Thorncombe side) and sent it to the highway engineer who oversaw the EDG project, but I never heard anything back as I'm not a cllr anymore and technically not a resident of that road.

I'll try to attach the photo to this post so that you can see what I'm talking about, you can see how the drain is sunk into the tarmac. The drain cover on the other side is also sunk and needs fixing.

Normally, there will be a follow-up inspection several months after road works have been done to tweak any issues that emerge... and with builders on site for the Townley junct works and the tweaking of the Hillsborough junction, this would be the most cost-effective time to address the flagged issues of the recent EDG traffic calming works.

[Mustard]

Think Ivydale Road residents have similar problems and wanted to do something about it. There could be a thread on here relating to that, if it's not been deleted.

[rch]

A new thread specifically about problems with ramps and speed humps, with suggestions of alternative ways of controlling traffic speed, could be useful (the legislation has changed in the past few years and is more flexible)... I did a lot of work when I was a cllr on this - we actually had the humps on Red Post Hill removed and replaced with pedestrian islands precisely because of the noise and structural damage.

[PeckhamNicola]

Residents at top end of Ivydale got their speed bumps removed not that long after they were put in. The thread I know about on this is on the South East Central forum, I've tried before but failed to post a link as the EDF rejects it for some reason. Google south east central ivydale cheltenham and it comes up. Councillor Hamvas was involved with helping those residents to get the speedbumps removed, so definitely do contact your local councillors.

I was told by the Council when I raised this issue that they no longer install this type of speedbump (the ones which span the whole road) but I'm really not sure that's true. It's completely irresponsible to install them on roads which carry heay traffic, unless they are going to do the job properly and strengthen the roads to stop the ground shaking. Road narrowing, and/or pedestrian islands, as suggested in this thread, are much better.

[rch]

Yes, I seem to remember as well that new full width speed humps have been banned, but I can't find the reference now. I think they can only be reinstated where they already exist.

These days designers tend to go for more "organic" ways of controlling traffic such as the build outs and ped islands... the only problem with this method is that parking spaces can be lost in giving the islands clearance, but you can usually find a balance. Raised tables can work in some instances, but if the ramp is too steep it can cause the noise and shaking.

[Penguin68]

Whilst I hate them (I have cracking etc, in garden walls as a consequence, as well as regular wear and tear to tires that I would not otherwise get) I do have to say that the incidence of significant accidents and damage to cars etc. around my part of Underhill was very significantly reduced following the introduction of the trio of humps now installed. So I have very mixed feelings about them. I am not certain that the building out of pavement, islands, creation of chicanes etc are any more useful, and can cause real problems when it comes to maneuvering where thoughtless parking blocks gaps.

I do think that some smaller roads (as has started in bits of ED, though perhaps only as temporary measures) could be banned to HGVs or artics (except for access) - this would reduce road pressures and consequential damage considerably). Wouldn't help us in Underhill, as that is a bus and through route and open to heavy traffic, but would help others.

[heartblock]

Thank you all for the extra information. I e-mailed James Barber and Helen Hayes. Both have replied, James with a message that was sympathetic but no actual action. Helen has forwarded my e-mail to a Deborah Collins to ask her to investigate.

I read up on traffic calming measures- residential routes with buses and HGV traffic are not suitable for these raised ramps, because they cause vibration and noise - so if you live near one of these on EDG please write or e-mail Helen/ James.

The drain is another problem with this particular ramp and needs repair.

I can see why a pedestrian crossing didn't go there in the end - vehicles still race around the corner despite the stupid ramp and anyone halfway across is in danger of being squished. As someone who often walks this route to Dulwich Park, a suitable place for a crossing might be on the straight just where the island is, a bit up from Velde Way, but without a raised ramp, not keen to push my problem further down the road. The sight line is better for drivers, so they can react to pedestrians crossing the road.

I know there is a thread about Melbourne Grove, I don't understand why the Council is thinking of making changes on this relatively quiet and not so busy road before solving the problems on EDG. It's a bit like trying to clean all the polluted streams coming off a main river, while pouring sewage into the river, seems a bit crazy to me.

[rch]

To be fair to James, this section of EDG isn't in his ward... try emailing Michael Mitchell. The highways team is Chris Mascord and Matt Hill, who should be overseeing the Townley junct implementation, so a site visit should be easy to arrange.

The ped island was supposed to be part of a three-part traffic slowing tactic around that corner... firstly, the road was narrowed, then the ramp/table was put in, and then the island with illuminated bollards was intended to work in tandem to get vehicles to slow down by providing even further narrowing. Plus, a lot of the elderly residents wanted a crossing further down than Velde, on the way to the shops and bus stops. But it sounds like something definitely needs to be done to tweak it.

As a resident of Melbourne Grove, I totally agree that the current proposals are completely mad.

[heartblock]

Thank you rch, I will e-mail Michael.

Ideally, completing the pedestrian crossing with an island/ bollards would help, I'm not sure though, I think the island would be hit by a speeding vehicle within a week.

Some sort off-set by building the pavement out on the approach both East and West, planting some more small trees on the approach either side of the bend and a proper cycle lane is probably the best design. Drivers tend to slow if they see trees, off-sets/chicanes slow traffic before reaching the bend. Cycle lanes would narrow the road making traffic along the straights slower.

[jonnywalker]

An interesting post this one. I live on the part of Ivydale road in nunhead which had our raise tables removed. They were installed together with pinch points early 2010. For some stupid reason London Transport decided to run double decker buses down this road some years back instead of a single decker. The increased weight of these buses every 5 mins in both directions amounting to 200+ a day started to have a major effect on properties not long after the tables were installed. Many local residents noticed cracks and damage occurring to their properties and we came together on mass and lobbied the council to have them removed. It was a long process and not an easy one with many council meetings at which their experts refused to accept any link between raised tables and subsidence caused by ground vibration. When they removed the tables they resurfaced the road but didn't dig down a significant amount which has resulted in subsidence to the highway. I have been in conversation with the council about this as the buses hitting this new subsidence is again causing damage to properties but despite being assured maintenance would be carried out in May we are still waiting. Good luck in getting them taken out and you should quote what happened on Ivydale as a precedence.

[Andrew1011]

rch Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To be fair to James, this section of EDG isn't in

> his ward...

That's never stopped him before rch and, depending in which side of the southern side of Melbourne Grove the person who's instigated the madcap campaign for the barrier there, they may not be in his ward either.

[Andrew1011]

Heartblock, just for clarity, there are three councillors covering village ward (electoral area covering the part of EDG in question) and Cllr Michael Mitchell is just one of them. The others are Cllr Anne Kirby ([email protected]) and Cllr Jane Lyons ([email protected]) and you should probably email them too to try to get maximum support. I'm glad you've emailed Helen Hayes MP.

[heartblock]

Thank you Andrew1011 and jonnywalker. I e-mailed Michael and he responded quickly and he has asked for a resolution to this unfinished ramp/pedestrian crossing. Either it needs to be completed with a proper crossing or removed - As long as the noise and vibration stops I don't really care which one.

Does anyone know if EDG comes under Highways England, formerly Highways Agency? From April 2015 compensation can be claimed by residents who own and occupy a property that is devalued due to new road changes causing noise pollution and vibration. If the ramp is dealt with, I will not need to consider this, it's not really an 'option' anyway as the problem will still exist.

Maybe the ramp can be transported to Athenlay Road?

[rch]

Glad to hear that something is in motion... it may well be that they can adjust the angle of the ramp in the first instance to try to tone down the problem until a ped island can be implemented. Can't remember off the top of my head, but EDG may well come under Highways England as it's a TfL controlled road, not a Southwark controlled road.

Wasn't trying to be party-political, Andrew... Michael was a cllr when the EDG works were designed, consulted, and implemented so he'll be more up to speed (bad metaphor!) than the other two. While waiting for Deborah to refer to Matt, then to Chris Mascord, I figured it would be quicker to go from Michael directly to Chris without having to get held up by explanations.

[kudo7]

More info :

http://adf.ly/1HHwe7

[heartblock]

Apologies for bringing this subject up again, but just so people are aware there is a registered complaint about the noise and vibration from these road ramps. So if you live on EDG and have been detrimentally effected by these in terms of your property or your health, please make your opinion known with Southwark Council.

[PeckhamNicola]

Can you provide details of who to contact and reference of existing complaint?