Just a wish...(there was a baby/pram/child free pub in ED)

[fazer71]

solution

[Curmudgeon]

SteveUK1978 Wrote:

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> far parents go these days not to curb any of their

> offspring's childlike behaviour. I feel it's gone

> too far and it won't do them any favours when they

> enter the real world >

>

> Children acting in a childlike manner. When will

> it end.

It's not the children, it's ineffectual parenting

Teach appropriate modes of behaviour for different environments and no problem

Yes I'm a parent, my children have "restaurant voices".

[Northeastview]

Is a shame this has turned into a diatribe against parents of young children. It is really hard caring for little kids and I'd guess the majority of the people you see are parenting far from their own families and natural support networks. Pubs have marketed themselves as a family environment and families frequently have children. You want to indulge in your own antisocial behaviour (I don't like being around those smoking for example, weather I'm with my kids or not) but hold parents responsible for behaviours you don't like. If there is one thing worse than hearing a screaming kid in the pub you are in, it's being the parent trying to keep everyone happy when you've had no sleep/food/wash/adult conversation for a very long time. Instead of bemoaning your own disturbed peace why not offer some words of comradeship or maybe see if they need a hand? This is what I do and it results in more smiles all round than sneering and getting cross.

[edcam]

Northeastview Wrote:

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> Is a shame this has turned into a diatribe against

> parents of young children. It is really hard

> caring for little kids and I'd guess the majority

> of the people you see are parenting far from their

> own families and natural support networks. Pubs

> have marketed themselves as a family environment

> and families frequently have children. You want

> to indulge in your own antisocial behaviour (I

> don't like being around those smoking for example,

> weather I'm with my kids or not) but hold parents

> responsible for behaviours you don't like. If

> there is one thing worse than hearing a screaming

> kid in the pub you are in, it's being the parent

> trying to keep everyone happy when you've had no

> sleep/food/wash/adult conversation for a very long

> time. Instead of bemoaning your own disturbed

> peace why not offer some words of comradeship or

> maybe see if they need a hand? This is what I do

> and it results in more smiles all round than

> sneering and getting cross.

None of this excuses badly behaved children. Boo hoo, it's tiring being a parent. It's hardly a new thing.

[Zebedee Tring]

Lots (if not most) of us have had children and we often have been embarrassed by their bad behaviour. The point is that we at least tried to control them, even if we failed. You will find that if people see that parents are trying to control them they will be more sympathetic. However, too many parents today don't even try to control their kids and this is what this thread is really about.

[fazer71]

Yep we suffer a current generation of lazy incompetent parents.

And their out of control maniac children.

:(

Unfortunately society is unable to deal with the fall out.

Political Correctness.. Now means you can't say anything.

[Jeremy]

Can always rely in good ol fazer to exaggerate the situation beyond all recognition!

[Chief]

Nightmare kids - I blame the (nightmare) parents!

Lovely kids - credit to the (lovely) parents!!!

[fazer71]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Can always rely in good ol fazer to exaggerate the

> situation beyond all recognition!

Can't comment . PC me :)

[binkylilyput]

I can see both sides of the story but I personally find it difficult that pubs are no longer a space for adults. In a pub (or outside a pub), adults are quite within their right to drink until drunk (within limits obviously), smoke, talk about adult things and swear and cuss!

I try to behave appropriately when there are children around but don't want to have to worry about that when I am going to the pub. I'm not an inconsiderate buffoon, I just think that adults should be allowed to be adults in an adult environment.

I imagine there would be ED forum uproar if I sat in a playground getting tipsy, using adult language and smoking.....and then complained that the children were behaving like children!

[The Minkey]

Just one would be nice.

[JDR]

I remember when you had the two sides to the pub. One was for anyone, the other adult only. Think pubs from my neck of the woods ( Lancashire) still do!

I have three children and can't think of anything less pleasurable than taking them to a pub. For them, me and everyone else...

[rodneybewes]

JDR Wrote:

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> I remember when you had the two sides to the pub.

> One was for anyone, the other adult only. Think

> pubs from my neck of the woods ( Lancashire) still

> do!

> I have three children and can't think of anything

> less pleasurable than taking them to a pub. For

> them, me and everyone else...

I know what you mean. Kids were always outside in the garden. I'm a traditionalist in that I think pubs are for adults and restaurants for families. Would you take your kids into one of those legal cannabis caf?s in Amsterdam? I think not.

An earlier poster did mention though that pubs are more and more touted as family friendly as they all now realise there is more premium to be made feeding people. Can't blame parents for taking the kids into pubs when the pubs want them in more than the drinkers. Is there a normal pub left in East Dulwich? By normal I mean one that is focussed on drinking and/or sports? I don't think so.

[Jah Lush]

rodneybewes Wrote:

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> JDR Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

Is there a normal pub left in

> East Dulwich? By normal I mean one that is

> focussed on drinking and/or sports? I don't think

> so.

There is. It's called The Castle.

[Zebedee Tring]

I post the following with a certain trepidation because of the deliberately perverse interpretation that certain posters placed on an earlier post of mine on this thread, but here goes.

This morning I was walking past Dulwich Library when a man and two boys (maybe his sons) cycled on the pavement very near me - one of the boys nearly hit me. The man offered no apology

Just to make it clear, I wasn't hit by the bicycle and didn't suffer any injury. I didn't shout at anyone and I am not anti kid (we brought up two of our own quite happily). The main point that I wish to make is that, quite apart from the fact that cycling on the pavement is illegal (an issue that has been debated at length in the past on EDF), there are too many parents today who seem to think that it is OK for their family to use the pavement for cycling and that other people, irrespective of what age or physical condition they are in, should jump out of the way when they approach them on their bikes.

[Nigello]

Agreed.

I have, though, also seen parents with their kids riding on the roads and doing it very safely, even young children, so hats off to them.

[Zebedee Tring]

Nigello, I agree that there are a good number of responsible parents. However, there are too many parents who are not.

[jamiemck]

There are children in child-friendly pubs, wah-wah!! There's nowhere on Lordship Lane that isn't packed with prams, boo-hoo!! And saying all this while standing outside The Castle. Where have all the REAL pubs gone? WHERE, I ask!? Jeez.

What you are asking for is a pub like those that thrive on the money brought in by opening up to families but without the families. Cake and eat it anyone?

The Castle is a fine boozer: no kids, no bullshit. Homemade ham and cheese barms in cling-film behind the bar. This is a pub. But the moan brigade here wouldn't deign to drink there because it doesn't have Gamma Ray on tap or a sourdough pizza oven.

Actually, don't go to The Castle - please - so I won't have to run into you. How about next time, instead of crying into the wishing well, actually taking the initiative and doing something about the issue you see. Open your own hip pub with a no-child policy. All the moaners on here can club together and create a co-op pub. That would be great. And the rest of us won't have to put up with any more moaning! If you can't get enough money I know some great moaners who go on and on about the "squatters" who would dare to sit in a caffe nero with the drink they've bought. I'll even give you the name of the pub for free: The Mother's Ruin.

[SteveUK1978]

ZT - the best advice I can offer is to avoid the clear danger spot that has developed around the Dulwich Library / Plough area. What with your scooter near miss on the 30th of June (see post a couple of pages earlier) and now a cycle near miss today it's just a matter of time before you a finally felled by one of these riotous brutes en-route to which ever pub their parents leave them in all day.

[Zebedee Tring]

SteveUK1978, for some reason you seem to find this funny. I would have thought that by the time that you reached the age of 37 (which I presume from your post name is roughly your age) you might have approached this issue from a more mature perspective and wouldn't support parents who behave like overgrown kids by cycling on the pavement with their brood. Just wait until you get "felled by one of these riotous brutes" (in your words). Don't then come complaining to me.

I will continue to walk to Red Apple to get my morning paper and nothing is going to stop me.

[SteveUK1978]

37 in a couple of weeks ZT. I will buy you a pint in The Actress, but you will have to put up with my son in his high chair watching PeppaPig on the iPad.

Sorry, it was a flippant post which never helps. But then, with the similarity to events you posted about on the 30th your post is either (1) genuinely unlucky to have happened twice or (2) a greatly exaggerated.

Not sure it is relevant to this thread, but I always used to ride my BMX on the pavement till I was probably in my early teens. Rightly or wrongly it happened in the 1980s too I guess.

[Otta]

RE Smoking outside, I've noticed more and more places have non smoking areas outside. This strikes me as a good idea. I just had a couple of pints in the Bridge House (Penge) with my sister and my 2 kids. We were sat at a non smoking table and when I felt the need for a fag I walked over to a smoking area and had one.

Had someone complained of my smoking there I'd have been able to point them in the direction of the non smoking tables. Seems to be sensible.

[Zebedee Tring]

SteveUK1978, I wasn't exaggerating. People (i.e. not just yours truly) are always complaining about bicycles or kiddie cycles on the pavement hitting them or just missing them. So two near misses for me in a relatively short time isn't surprising. Given the number of people cycling on the pavement these days, it's only a matter of luck that there aren't more accidents.

I remember cycling on the pavement when I was about 12 and being stopped by a policeman - I never did it again. But that was about 100 years ago when people generally showed greater consideration towards the rest of the community. And there were more police officers to enforce the law.

[Townleygreen]

This is what the Dolphin in Sydenham has on its website about this issue, in case anyone's interested!

Children at The Dolphin

The Dolphin attracts a wide range of customers and we welcome them all, but also recognise that we have to manage our space so that everyone can enjoy their time with us. Here is our policy regarding children in the pub.

Our licence stipulates that children and young persons under 18 are not allowed on the premises at any time unless accompanied by an adult. It is our policy that children under 12 are not permitted on the premises after 9pm. It is also our policy that children must remain seated and supervised at all times .

And here is how we arrived at this policy?

The topic of children in pubs always generates a huge, polarised and often heated debate. Some people love children, while their very presence drives others mad. Do you turn the pub into a playground and take the not insignificant income local families bring, or do you pin up the old sign ?NO CHILDREN ALLOWED. BY ORDER OF THE MANAGEMENT? to appease the old regulars at the bar? Are children running around screaming in a pub garden any more welcome than a group of men drinking cans of beer in a children?s playground?

Can you really keep both camps happy? We believe it is possible, but requires consideration and tolerance from everybody.

We designed the Dolphin and its garden for adults and the decision not to include a children?s playground was deliberate. We don?t offer a children?s menu, but that doesn?t mean we don?t welcome children with their families who want to enjoy a meal and a drink together. Children should enjoy the privilege of being in a pub, but it is a pub and a pub is an adult environment.

The signs on our doors read ?This is an adult environment, Children must be seated at all times.?

Some people find these signs offensive. They are not meant to be, but they are a clear statement of our position in the debate. Over the years we have had complaints from many of our customers about children running around and playing both inside and in the garden. Some of them voted with their feet and did not come back. We have to respect the needs of all our customers and so must insist that parents have their children seated with them at all times.

We are absolutely not saying that children aren?t welcome, but asking that everyone enjoys the pub for what it is and is considerate of our other customers around them.

As a rule of thumb, if you are patiently following your toddler around the garden worrying that they aren?t sitting, don?t worry, but if you are enjoying a drink and your paper and haven?t really seen your child for a while, it?s probably time you went and found them.

[BrandNewGuy]

Excellent.

"The signs on our doors read ?This is an adult environment, Children must be seated at all times.? Some people find these signs offensive."

Well, some people have an extraordinary sense of entitlement. Good on the Dolphin.