Just a wish...(there was a baby/pram/child free pub in ED)

[*Bob*]

hell is.. other people's children

[KidKruger]

"In the UK they is a current fashion to simply allow children do do exactly as they please"

Not sure I agree with this.

By definition, in a pub when you dislike kids' presence you're only going to notice the noisy children.

That doesn't make all parents on trend for the fashion you describe.

I'm a bugger for generalisations, but that one just doesn't stand up !

[fazer71]

It isn't all parents it's just the ones who follow that fashion / trend.

The children who go kerserk are often not take outside the parents just carry on without regard to others they allow their maniac / unwell out of control kids to run the show, I've seen many times.

In other countries parents take their screaming disobedient children outside to calm down or they leave.

In the UK that rarely happens.

Discipline is now a dirty word

many parents don't deal with issues

or worst when the child screams or behave badly they pander to their ever need

then children are in control of the parents

eventually the parents out in public are so exhausted they just want to chat with their friend/s in the pub

and they allow the screaming to continue.

I feel sorry for the Parents and the children.

Though more sorry for everyone else who's out looking to enjoy life.

Thing is you can't go into an ED pub without a very good chance of having to deal with screaming children.

The OP wouldn't have started this thread if you could.

The trend fashion is not to discipline so you end up with these problems.

I'd love to see a similar thread on a foreign forum going on and on about screaming kids in cafe's bars etc.

My French Spanish German Italian Portuguese isn't up to trawling the net would be very interesting to do that. :)

[Otta]

fazer71 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thing is you can't go into an ED pub without a very good chance of having to deal with screaming children.

Admittedly I don't get out to the pub as much as I'd like, but this statement just seems to be a total exaggeration.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > In the UK they is a current fashion to simply

> allow children do do exactly as they please

>

> I think that's pushing it a bit.. I wouldn't

> describe a few misguided or struggling parents as

> a "fashion". But hey.

There definitely is a small contingent, who believe you should never say 'no' to your child or force them to share. I know this sounds like I'm making it up, but google it, there are plenty of articles. It's an extreme interpretation (misinterpretation) of positive parenting and is more common than you think.

[Zebedee Tring]

My late mother said that you should never say "no" to a cat. Unsurprisingly she was very popular with our cats.

[*Bob*]

I just wear a t-shirt with 'no' printed on it.

Saves a lot of time.

[Otta]

I can believe there are parents who will never say no to their kids. They are seriously not preparing their kids for the real world.

Although I can see the sense in the method where you neither punish nor reward, but rather talk it through. I just wouldn't have the patience.

[Bellenden Belle]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> There definitely is a small contingent, who

> believe you should never say 'no' to your child or

> force them to share. I know this sounds like I'm

> making it up, but google it, there are plenty of

> articles. It's an extreme interpretation

> (misinterpretation) of positive parenting and is

> more common than you think.

Ah - off topic but yes I've witnessed firsthand the 'not forcing to share' parenting style.

Like this advice, taken from a local Dulwich playgroup:

Child-led play is observing sometimes close and sometimes from a distance - you do not need to follow your child closely everywhere they go.

Sharing

Sharing is an adult concept that children are not ready to understand until much later.

What to expect - some young babies can be very happy giving and taking with each other, at some point the item will become an extension of their self, and there will come a time when toddlers will be upset over that ONE thing while they learn to negotiate and handle their emotions around ownership. If left to it without adult interference, there is no problem - the problem usually arises in the adult who feels compelled to 'teach about sharing'. The child who is 'made to share' is not sharing, she is complying.

[Earl Aelfheah]

http://www.beamarshall.com/yesparenting/

[JohnL]

Bellenden Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > There definitely is a small contingent, who

> > believe you should never say 'no' to your child

> or

> > force them to share. I know this sounds like

> I'm

> > making it up, but google it, there are plenty

> of

> > articles. It's an extreme interpretation

> > (misinterpretation) of positive parenting and

> is

> > more common than you think.

>

> Ah - off topic but yes I've witnessed firsthand

> the 'not forcing to share' parenting style.

> Like this advice, taken from a local Dulwich

> playgroup:

>

> Child-led play is observing sometimes close and

> sometimes from a distance - you do not need to

> follow your child closely everywhere they go.

>

> Sharing

> Sharing is an adult concept that children are not

> ready to understand until much later.

> What to expect - some young babies can be very

> happy giving and taking with each other, at some

> point the item will become an extension of their

> self, and there will come a time when toddlers

> will be upset over that ONE thing while they learn

> to negotiate and handle their emotions around

> ownership. If left to it without adult

> interference, there is no problem - the problem

> usually arises in the adult who feels compelled to

> 'teach about sharing'. The child who is 'made to

> share' is not sharing, she is complying.

Somehow reminds me of junior school football where

everyone just chases the ball - no positions, no

tactics and certainly no passing :)

[fazer71]

I have a friends (yes unbelievable but they do live North Ldn) they have two boys now aged 12 and 15 they did the YES parenting thing. Both were working like crazy, away from home or often back late their boys were mostly looked after by au pairs. That may also explain the YES parenting, making up for not being there.

I stopped seeing them it became unbearable, the last straw three years ago, they visited we spend a day in Dulwich park the boys fuelled on pure sugar and chocolate much tears in the play area etc, afterwards back to mine for a Chinese, the youngest ate so much he threw up at the table "NICE" Mum apologised and cleaned it up Dad went into the garden, all adult conversation was impossible the boys would interrupt and my old friends attention would immediately be directed at the child.

From an early age apparently (I was away working so didn?t see them) the boys were a difficult and obviously never disciplined or given limits, the idea being that would set them up for life to be dominant happy and driven, as opposed to meek weak and easily managed, a great way to set them up to be successful.

I have occasional updates from a mutual friend who still visits (maniac imo) apparently the boys are glued to their computer games consoles 24.7 these days so I may risk a visit. *crossed fingers*.

But

The 12 year old is obese can't do sport did rugby for a while but kept getting injured so that's now over, he's a little bullied at school and has had many days at home to recover.

The 15 year old was expelled from school early this year for trouble making and generally disruptive behaviour he's now home Schooled.

My old friends probably expect their boys will be happy billionaires in some creative field.

My money isn't going on that but who knows.

**************

I kid you not.

[KidKruger]

Anyway, just do it yourself.

I've told kids to quieten-down in pubs before, they usually do (before bleating to their parents about the weirdo in the corner). I've also had a parent ask what I said to his kid, I said I'd told the kid to be quiet it is not a nursery.

Community welfare innit.

[KidKruger]

Which is another, funny, subject - parents freaking out if you speak to their kid. Regardless if circumstances.

[Zebedee Tring]

Reminds me of one of the regulars in "From The Message Boards" in "Private Eye":

"If any stranger speaks to my kid, I swear I'll do time!"

[aquarius moon]

When we were young we were beaten if we misbehaved. Growing up was scarey so I didn't want my children to be scared too.

There is a happy medium.

If mine misbehaved they were threatened with no sweets before bed, being sent to bed early or no TV.

It always worked.

One look from me and they would do as they were being told rather than receive punishment.

Nowadays it's the parents who seem scared. Scared of upsetting their children.

[bermygirl]

Hey ED, I have a right to smoke in an adult environment and that doesn't

Make me a skank. How dare you judge me like that. You don't even know me. asshole. I would not sit down and light up next to a child and blow smoke towards them. But if I am out at a pub, having a cigarette, it's completely inappropriate for someone to ask me not to because they choose to sit next to me.

[bermygirl]

😜

[bermygirl]

Otta....I applaud your responses. As for ED thinking that smoking should be banned in a public places i wonder if he/she would mind banning drunken lude behaviour as well.

And sue.....reformed smokers are truly hypocritical. Give it a rest and like otta said move away.

[landsberger]

When I grew up (not locally), there was a pub in the sticks that did great business because it had a kids's playground in the beergarden (and a little hatch that served lemonade, cola, crisps, nuts etc). There was also a weekly flea market. Kids were banned from the pub itself (when I say banned - a child could pop into the pub to retrieve mum and dad to deal with a cut finger, but certainly couldn't ride a scooter round the bar). And there was, to the front of the pub, an adults' only external drinking area. This seemed to be a workable compromise. Part of the problem nowadays is, is the child-centric view we hold of life, but that's (probably) for a different thread.

[Zebedee Tring]

If I had my way, I would ban people from using split infinitives in public.

[Sue]

bermygirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> And sue.....reformed smokers are truly

> hypocritical. Give it a rest and like otta said

> move away.

I'm not "reformed" - I just stopped smoking.

I'm being hypocritical - how?

Give what a rest?

[vicksg]

Well said Curmudgeon. My parents owned a pub when I was young, and they used to take me to pubs as well. But I was expected to behave, and I knew that I was in an adult space, not my own home, and should behave appropriately. Running around, screaming, or generally disturbing other customers was not an option.

I love the phrase 'look at me parenting' ! I know just what you mean.

But this leads to a much wider debate about how far parents go these days not to curb any of their offspring's childlike behaviour. I feel it's gone too far and it won't do them any favours when they enter the real world, but what would I know?!

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I like children in pubs when their parents

> appreciate that it is their role to ensure their

> children know how to behave which does not involve

> running around, being loud or in any way impacting

> on other people's rights to enjoy themselves, hold

> a conversation etc ...I like children in pubs if

> their parents don't do that overly loud "look at

> me parenting" thing and take them outside to calm

> down if they are crying, tantrumming, being

> boisterous or generally acting like it's a park or

> playzone or their own home

>

> And now you can take that entire sentence and

> replace the word "parents" with "friends" and

> "children" with "other adults"

[Zebedee Tring]

It's happened already. Those children - and indeed those twenty somethings who behave like children - who have to have the latest iPhone/game/download/trainers etc NOW!!!

[SteveUK1978]

Children acting in a childlike manner. When will it end.