The ED mummy who picked clean the pile outside the MIND shop

[pk]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> but the charity has said that they don't want

> stuff left on the pavement

>

> Yes, that's because they know that there are

> scumbag thieves around!

but also because they don't want just any old rubbish, they want things of saleable standard only not garbage that they will have to go to the hassle of disposing of

[Domitianus]

You completely miss the point. A gift had been made by a donor to MIND. The goods therefore became MIND's. The goods were NOT merely dumped in the street for anyone to take - that is obvious to anyone. MIND are clearly desirous to receive donations which they sell to fund their work. The fact that they had been delivered in a manner that was not to MIND's liking is utterly irrelevant. MIND were clearly not rejecting donations but were attempting to discourage people from leaving them outside the shop. My analogy wth Royal Mail is rock solid. It is a matter of possession. When a gift is made by one person to another (whether delivered in an ideal manner or not) ownership passes from the donor to the recipient. For someone else to take the goods is theft - plain and simple. This is elementary law.

Fact is, however the goods had been deposited, whoever owned them, they did not belong to the DM who lifted (stole) them. It would have been clear as day that the goods were donated to charity to generate funds for charitable work. Why else had they been left outside a charity shop? Whether or not the donor was lazy or negligent has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER upon the ownership issue here.

Let me put it another way - if someone was foolish enough to leave as a donation an envelope containing fifty quid in cash on the doorstep, despite MIND's attempts to discourage people from leaving donations outside, and someone came along and pocketed it, would you still be saying the same thing?

[Eliza.D]

When there has been a car boot sale in the vacinity and all the tat that they can not sell or be bothered to take home appears in bags outside the charity shop,then i think the poor staff that have to move it out he way before they can open up and then haul it into the shop are miffed to say the least.

If you want to donate then do it in shop hours or use the official charity bags that are put through the door for collection.

People who leave black bin bags full of stuff that could get ruined by rain or pinched don't care.

[dulwichbloke]

Domitianus - You are wrong - It is not a matter of 'possession' as you say. Nor is it a matter of the intention of the 'donor' alone - that's like saying it only needs one person to intend to make a contract (which would be wrong). If I don't want to accept a gift, save in a particular manner and I communicate that to the would-be donor, then if that person later ignores my wishes and purports to make the 'gift' anyway, ownership does not pass to me. Now that is elementary law!

[antijen]

People can be charged with theft by finding but I agree with posts that if you want to make sure no one takes your donations then dont leave them outside when closed. Before I moved here I purposely left things outside on a sunday so people could help themselves, I went back at night to make sure it had been taken and no mess was left. I preferred to give them free as there was many people who could not afford to shop at the charity shops. I knew a number of people who did this, as there was quite a few homeless people. Although this may not be the case in ED I have met quite a few people who cannot afford the prices in the mind shop, maybe people donating leave it outside when its closed because they expect people to take it. It clearly tells you not to.

[macroban]

dulwichbloke - You are wrong - on two counts

(1) If, as you claim, ownership has not passed from the putative donor, then the theft is from the putative donor.

(2) And on the point you ignored earlier, that the thief entered the the hereditament of the MIND shop.

MacRoban

[Sue]

antijen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I preferred to give them free as there was

> many people who could not afford to shop at the

> charity shops. I knew a number of people who did

> this, as there was quite a few homeless people.

> Although this may not be the case in ED I have met

> quite a few people who cannot afford the prices in

> the mind shop.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

This is a good point and thanks for making it, as it had never occurred to me before to leave stuff outside for that reason.

Prices at charity shops have got higher and higher and in some cases you can buy items new cheaper than from certain charity shops. They are certainly no longer a cheap option for people with very little money.

[Eliza.D]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> antijen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I preferred to give them free as there was

> > many people who could not afford to shop at the

> > charity shops. I knew a number of people who

> did

> > this, as there was quite a few homeless people.

> > Although this may not be the case in ED I have

> met

> > quite a few people who cannot afford the prices

> in

> > the mind shop.

>

> xxxxxxxxxxxx

>

> This is a good point and thanks for making it, as

> it had never occurred to me before to leave stuff

> outside for that reason.

>

> Prices at charity shops have got higher and higher

> and in some cases you can buy items new cheaper

> than from certain charity shops. They are

> certainly no longer a cheap option for people with

> very little money.

Totally agree. The Mind shop does a great job and the money raised goes to a really good cause, but surely the other point of a charity shop is that it is cheaper to buy second hand. The Mind Shop sells some clothes, video's, household items etc at only slightly less than the original shop price.

St Christophers Hospice shop is closer to the essence of a charity shop.

[Mikecg]

This is ED dont you know, if it isn't over priced then it isn't any good.

[pk]

what's making me chuckle is the thought of 'the shop' going to the police to report the 'theft' saying: I might have had something stolen (or i might not), but if i did i don't know when i got it, what it was or when it was taken and i would not be able to identify it if you retrieved it (and even if i could i may or may not want it)

[Mick Mac]

Look, some mums in ED do not work, their hubbys are rich and therefore the car is nice, but tightarse richdads give poor housekeeping and therefore stay at home mums look to cut costs everywhere to help release funds for caffe lattes in the village. Completely understandable.

[antijen]

A lot of the money raised with big known charities goes to big pay for senior management eliza. A couple of years ago there were demonstrations outside charity shops in protest against this, many volunteers supported this. Tried to link with google but found this instead. http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:sZ0NUxg7Zq4J:www.labournet.net/ukunion/0803/shelter2.pdf+charity+management+protest&cd=19&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

[Emily]

Well, after a second trip to the Hospice shop in Lordship Lane this morning to drop off more stuff, only to discover that nearly everything I donated seems to have vanished, I think in future I will simply leave things in the street - someone might benefit from them. I gave some nice stuff - eg a Betty Jackson wrap dress, summer resses from Toast, Great Plains etc a brand new men's cashmere black jumper, children's fairy dresses etc, and I made the deliberate decision not to Ebay as I wanted to give something to charity. Now, either bar a trenchcoat and a petit bateau babygrow sold between yesterday lunchtime and 10.30 am or it it went in a skip! Today I delivered a load more stuff (before clocking that almost none of my donations from yesterday were out) and I almost demanded the lot back. And it was nice things, mostly almost unworn/completely unworn ironed, good condition, Kew/Gap/Boden/Saltwater etc. I feel quite affronted!

[Moos]

Emily, perhaps they were still in the process of washing and ironing it, or perhaps it had been re-sorted and sent to a different branch?

[Jeremy]

Clothes aren't necessarily sold in the shop you dropped it off in.

For instance, if they already had similar stuff in the ED branch, it may have been redistributed to another branch.

[Only me!]

Clothing that is not of suitable quality is sold on (may even be given?) to a firm of collectors, who drive round in large green vans/lorries, labelled "something something collections" & who I believe process it & send it on to the third world.

Judging buy the size of the collection vehicle that is seen outside the MIND shop this service must cover a whole host of such shops. Don't know if this to is a Charity, or indeed runs as a Business... just saying it happens.

[sophiesofa]

Emily you need to peek behind one of those curtains or doors to see the back room where there's a mountain of stuff being sorted ready to go on the shop floor or sent to a different shop.

[Emily]

I am almost certain this hospice doesn't have any other branches (unless someone knows different) and I was informed - huffily - that they don't iron anything. The shop wasn't overstocked at all - and most of the stuff out was complete toot - aka bobbly Primark tops.

[Emily]

Just remembered three Zara sweater dresses - each worn no more than twice, to my shame!

(and yes, this is part of rationalising my ridiculous shopping habits)

Suffice to say my nice Zara/Monsoon/Petit Bateau/Rachel Riley children's clothes will be going to acquaintances rather than the charity shop. Maybe I could find a nice Dulwich mum with a 4x4 who is in need!

[sophiesofa]

ooh my mate helps to design the rachel riley clothes. sorry that was off topic. What do you think they did with them then? They might still be in a to be sorted pile out back.

[antijen]

googled st christofer hospice (bigger than I thought) but came across this being discussed before on here.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,88398,88464

[antijen]

Can anyone do a link on mind site below, for financial statement 2008. I cant do it and want to have a look, curious.

http://www.mind.org.uk/About+Mind/

[womanofdulwich]

The perk of working for free in a charity shop is that you get first pick at what is donated. you should pay for it but it is you that gets first pick - just like jumble sales and nct nearly new sale etc etc. I think it is the only perk you get- some of the items donated are pretty smelly!!

[Emily]

hmmm....wonder where the nice freshly laundered Kew while linen skirt is then? It was a complete BUGGER to iron. And the pretty floral Zara tunic, and the White Stuff t-shirts (unworn!)

"Everything's ironed" I said brightly as I delivered my donations in a neatly folded pile. 'hmmph' says the volunteer, literally throwing (yes, chucking it with some vigour) in onto the floor.

I know I am whinging a bit, but I am most disillusioned!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Emily, dear, I am poor. Please give me your yummy clothes next time you feel the declutter fairy comes upon you.