The ED mummy who picked clean the pile outside the MIND shop

[woofmarkthedog]

Top Bird I say !!!!!!

W**F

[KalamityKel]

Mikecg Wrote:

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> Come on though KK it is a bit super Chav though.

Was there not a thread not so long ago about charity shops and staff having first dibs on items... is that not worse?

[Mikecg]

Not theives?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Charity-Shop-Donations-Being-Stolen-Thieves-Taking-Gifts-In-Recession/Article/200905115274046?f=rss

A new phonenomen called Bagging, it's a middle class chav's occupation in ED.

[Jeremy]

You shouldn't be so quick to judge. Perhaps the woman was a volunteer at the shop, or a charity worker.

There was a time I'd been for a few drinks round Hammersmith, and one of the guys we were drinking with worked for Oxfam. He stopped outside an Oxfam shop for a minute to see if anyone had left anything stealable, so he could take it home with him and keep it safe. At which point, five blokes came storming over threatening to give him a kicking.

[snorky]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> You shouldn't be so quick to judge. Perhaps the

> woman was a volunteer at the shop, or a charity

> worker.

>

> There was a time I'd been for a few drinks round

> Hammersmith, and one of the guys we were drinking

> with worked for Oxfam. He stopped outside an Oxfam

> shop for a minute to see if anyone had left

> anything stealable, so he could take it home with

> him and keep it safe. At which point, five blokes

> came storming over threatening to give him a

> kicking.

'praps she was, but the way she selected the better stuff and crammed it into her car, whilst leaving the pedestrian shite strewn all over the pavement, suggests that she was not.

I will be honest though - anyone on a low income or with kids or suchlike whop picks through the stuff and uses it, I am not bothered about, whatever the legal side of it.

[ClareC]

I completely agree with Snorky on this one, even if she was in need, need doesn't stretch to a new handbag!!

One thing I would say though, the charity shops in ED dont exactly make it easy for people to donate goods, they are rarely open!!

The Mind shop is open more than the other one, however I have taken bags of charity to them on numerous occasions to find both shops closed at times of day when they state they are open. On another occasion my boyfriend took some bits to the mind shop and they asked him to come back another day! I have never simply left the goods outside the closed shop but can understand the fustration that may cause this.

[Sue]

I guess if they depend on volunteers and they don't have enough or someone doesn't turn up, not much they can do.

[alachlan]

Who is to say she hadn't taken the stuff there earlier for the shop to have and left the wrong bag or something?

"I will be honest though - anyone on a low income or with kids or suchlike whop picks through the stuff and uses it, I am not bothered about, whatever the legal side of it."

And what is the relevance of someone's income as above - are you saying its okay to steal if you are poor? Apparently its not okay if you have a nice car and clothes, but fine if not? Get a grip.

[lenk]

alachlan Wrote:

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> Who is to say she hadn't taken the stuff there

> earlier for the shop to have and left the wrong

> bag or something?

>

> "I will be honest though - anyone on a low income

> or with kids or suchlike whop picks through the

> stuff and uses it, I am not bothered about,

> whatever the legal side of it."

>

> And what is the relevance of someone's income as

> above - are you saying its okay to steal if you

> are poor? Apparently its not okay if you have a

> nice car and clothes, but fine if not? Get a grip.

Tune into this Saturday's Guardian money section Q+A section for a discussion of exactly this.

Some bloke spotted a guitar outside a charity shop and told his son he could have it, and wondered the moral standpoint on doing as such.

It's not exactly theft, but you're showing yourself to be cheap and morally redundant - it's obvious the pile of stuff is intended for the charity shop.

[snorky]

alachlan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Who is to say she hadn't taken the stuff there

> earlier for the shop to have and left the wrong

> bag or something?

>

> "I will be honest though - anyone on a low income

> or with kids or suchlike whop picks through the

> stuff and uses it, I am not bothered about,

> whatever the legal side of it."

>

> And what is the relevance of someone's income as

> above - are you saying its okay to steal if you

> are poor? Apparently its not okay if you have a

> nice car and clothes, but fine if not? Get a grip.

Yes I do

I am not as fortunate as you with your rigid code of conduct, but I will work on it

[alachlan]

"It's not exactly theft, but you're showing yourself to be cheap and morally redundant - it's obvious the pile of stuff is intended for the charity shop."

True but my point is that you can't discriminate betweeen someone poor or apparently not poor taking the stuff - either way your treatment should be the same. Why not think of it from the person's point of view taking this stuff. Do they feel less repugnant about themselves depending on how much money they have? They are either needy or not, or thieving or not.

[lenk]

alachlan Wrote:

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> True but my point is that you can't discriminate

> betweeen someone poor or apparently not poor

> taking the stuff - either way your treatment

> should be the same. Why not think of it from the

> person's point of view taking this stuff. Do they

> feel less repugnant about themselves depending on

> how much money they have? They are either needy or

> not, or thieving or not.

I never actuually brought that part into it, that's someone else's issue..

It's obvious that at some point the items will cost money when they are put on the shelves.

You wouldn't steal from a charity shop when the items were in situ, why it it any different sifting through the pile outside?

Parking a car up outside makes it all the more hilarious though. I often chastise people for it outside the one next to Boss Man Wines. None of them ever look particularly destitute. Just cheap.

[alachlan]

I can mostly agree with the act being theft, though since the shop hasn't taken possession of them does that make the clothes litter with intent?!!

Either way it makes it no more acceptable to take them if you are poor or not.

[snorky]

My work on this thread is done

I merely docment what I see and pose a question - the responses speak for themselves

Next time, snorky will resurrect the age old food & snobbery issue, peppered with references to ED eating establishments and asks the question - If Chick-King ( a royal delight ) was taken over by Heston Blumethal, William Rose and Moxons , would you change your tune and queue round the block for those tasty poultry essentials?

[Horsebox]

snorky Wrote:

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> If

> Chick-King ( a royal delight ) was taken over by

> Heston Blumethal, William Rose and Moxons , would

> you change your tune and queue round the block for

> those tasty poultry essentials?

Only if it was organic, free-range and locally sourced chicken.

[jaybee82]

I think the culprit will be easy to spot. Just look for someone wearing a Global Hypercolor t-shirt, an NY cap and a pair of MC Hammer trousers carrying a Paul Daniels magic show video.

[lenk]

here you go, over at the guardian they're debating this furiously

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2009/may/26/charity-shop-donations

[Horsebox]

Snorky, are you absolutely sure she was from East Dulwich?

This kind of behaviour is more commonly associated with people from Nunhead.

[Only me!]

In view of the interesting debate this thread has generated, I've done a bit of sleuthing & am pleased to let you know that the tyre marks in the road are indicating Off Road tyres that have clearly never actually been been used Off Road.

So we may all be jumping to conclusions here, as methinks the culprit will more likely be an SE21-ite!

A merchant banker down to their last 4 Million maybe ..... or a property developer who bet on Croxted Road just as everybody else realised it's really just a very busy main Road!

Hence the need for that Paul Daniels magic show video!!!!

[dulwichbloke]

I agree that ethically it may be doubtful, but I can't see how it could possibly be illegal. If the shop does indeed have a sign which effectively says that it is not accepting/taking possession of goods outside opening hours and the person dumping it plainly is no longer wanting to be the owner of the goods, then it is difficult to see how it could be theft as defined by the Section 1 of the Theft Act. Put simply, it is not "property belonging to another" (a requirement in Section 1 for the offence of theft). It is simply rubbish dumped on the street by the previous owner and belongs to nobody. If it was nicked from a donation box and there was no such sign, the situation would be different. The 'donor' is, however, probably committing an offence by littering.

[macroban]

Check out the property boundary. Unless snorky says otherwise the stolen goods were not on "the street" or on "the public pavement". There can be no littering offence.

The Theft Act does not say a theft is dependant on whether the person taking the goods knows who owns them.

[Keef]

EDmummy Wrote:

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> Not me...but I am not sure whether to take

> offence, Snorky! Is this defamation?

Have absolutely no gripe with you EDmummy, but were you being serious here? Frankly, if I bag up stuff for a shop, then walk it down there, and they're shut, then I would feel no guilt leaving it outside. I would be properly pissed off if someone took stuff from the bag, not through need, but because they fancied it. In my book, it's them who are scum, not me for leaving the bag,

[Keef]

Having said that, I tend to stick stuff in the recycling instead. Why can't the shops have secure drop off boxes?

[dulwichbloke]

No, my point being there was no owner (not simply that there is no knowledge of who the owner is). The Theft Act requires the goods to belong to another. If (and I don't know whether there is such a sign in this case) there is a sign that expressly or impliedly disavows ownership, there is no owner, therefore no theft.

[macroban]

Failure to donate does not remove ownership.