victoria line strike tomorrow-

[Mikecg]

You hav'nt met angry Nigel the 185 bus driver?

[sophiesofa]

wow that's good but i still wouldn't want to do it

[skidmarks]

They can afford to strike and they know they will win as they hold the whole of London to ransom.

[Mikecg]

Still on the fence then.

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mikecg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > >

> > What do you do for a job snorky, Ive asked

> before

> > but you still recoil and refuse to answer, why

> is

> > that?.

> >

> > I dont have any problems with tube drivers or

> the

> > strike for that matter its doesnt amount to a

> hill

> > of beans as far as I'm concearned.

>

>

> I sell my self to the highest bidder, like we all

> do, but I have no illusions about loyalty or

> teamwork

[sophiesofa]

Ooh angry Nigel sounds birlliant, as long as they have 'character' i love them anyway (even if they don't stop for me)!

[Mikecg]

He's a top bloke

[Canning]

Hold London to ransom? Why haven't they won yet then? Pretty good wages for the drivers but not as good as teachers or nurses on shift work that includes nights at weekends/bankholidays, or bankers, or MPs or civil engineers, or Farmers. Also why don't more people become traindrivers if it is so good?

[SeanMacGabhann]

tum te tum

lots of genero-union-bashing-they-get-paid-enough but back to my question

Not striking for money but the specific safety issue on that lines trains. Would peolpe not complain if someone was badly injured or killed as a result? Why were they fitted on all the other lines and not this one?

[Jeremy]

Canning Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> why don't more people become traindrivers if it is so good?

I didn't realise there was an unlimited number of tube driver vacancies.

[skidmarks]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tum te tum

>

> lots of genero-union-bashing-they-get-paid-enough

> but back to my question

>

> Not striking for money but the specific safety

> issue on that lines trains. Would peolpe not

> complain if someone was badly injured or killed as

> a result? Why were they fitted on all the other

> lines and not this one?

No they?re striking as a guy opened the doors on the wrong side, covered it up and got sacked. I think the issue here is that the guy covered it up I am sure if he had not he would have not been sacked.

[????]

Part Of The Union

(Ford/Hudson)

Fazz Music

Now I'm a union man

Amazed at what I am

I say what I think

That the company stinks

Yes I'm a union man.

When we meet in the local hall

I'll be voting with them all

With a hell of a shout

It's out brothers out

And the rise of the factory's fall.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

Till the day I die, till the day I die.

As a union man I'm wise

To the lies of the company spies

And I don't get fooled

By the factory rules

'Cause I always read between the lines.

And I always get my way

If I strike for higher pay

When I show my card

To the Scotland Yard

This what I say.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

Till the day I die, till the day I die.

Before the union did appear

My life was half as clear

Now I've got the power

To the working hour

And every other day of the year.

So though I'm a working man

I can ruin the government's plan

Though I'm not too hard

The sight of my card

Makes me some kind of superman.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

You don't get me I'm part of the union

Till the day I die, till the day I die

[skidmarks]

Canning Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hold London to ransom? Why haven't they won yet

> then? Pretty good wages for the drivers but not as

> good as teachers or nurses on shift work that

> includes nights at weekends/bankholidays, or

> bankers, or MPs or civil engineers, or Farmers.

> Also why don't more people become traindrivers if

> it is so good?

They get paid more than me. However, I did train to be in one of the lowest paid professions in this country.

Tell you what though; if you don?t pay peanuts you do get monkeys on the tube. (Little bit of Snorky there)

[HonaloochieB]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Part Of The Union

>

> (Ford/Hudson)

>

> Fazz Music

>

Thanks for reminding of this leaden 'satire' of unions Quids.

For thanks read 'Tha-anks' by the way.

[sophiesofa]

they get paid a great deal more than me too! I'm not responsible for anyone though and I don't begrudge them their pay and their 9 weeks holiday (but i am jealous).

[skidmarks]

Anyway, tube drivers can?t drive the train through red lights as the train would automatically stop. Next time you?re at the platform look down and you see these little shoes that rise and fall. All drivers are responsible for it acceleration, braking and opening the doors. Now the guys who check these safety systems they?re the ones responsible for passengers? safety.

[sophiesofa]

I think everyone who works for the train companies holds resposibility for safety not just the track workers (don't know the proper term so made one up) although they do a great and hard job.

[Torben Pieknik]

I won't go in to depth on the dispute, but Sean in response to your question about why these trains don't have the kit:

- new Victoria line trains will be start to be introduced within the next six months they have this kit fitted - fitting the kit now to the old trains would take longer than that.

- the RMT haven't raised this issue before in the past 40 years these trains have been in operation.

- the purpose of the safety procedures is to ensure that if the doors are opened incorrectly then no one is hurt, this guy didn't follow the procedures and someone could have been hurt, luckily they weren't. 18 drivers have made this mistake in 5 years, 16 of them still have their jobs because they followed the procedures.

[sophiesofa]

Thanks Torben, sounds good to me

[????]

- Bob Crow is Millwall

[SeanMacGabhann]

splendid answer Torben, cheers

[skidmarks]

Torben Pieknik Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> - the purpose of the safety procedures is to

> ensure that if the doors are opened incorrectly

> then no one is hurt, this guy didn't follow the

> procedures and someone could have been hurt,

> luckily they weren't. 18 drivers have made this

> mistake in 5 years, 16 of them still have their

> jobs because they followed the procedures.

Exactly!

Torben did you work for BBrail?

[Jeremy]

Just for the record, I'm not a "union-basher" either. But it's hard to win public support when they strike for dubious reasons.

[buggie]

Canning Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hold London to ransom? Why haven't they won yet

> then? Pretty good wages for the drivers but not as

> good as teachers or nurses on shift work that

> includes nights at weekends/bankholidays, or

> bankers, or MPs or civil engineers, or Farmers.

> Also why don't more people become traindrivers if

> it is so good?

... as a nurse (start a w/e of nights tonight) qualified for over 10yrs and have worked my way in a specialised field, I can honestly say I'm still a loonnnggg way off ?40k, even with the crap hours, face to face crap I have to take and the high level of responsibility I have.

If the only thing I had to worry about was opening a set of doors the right side, on a station I'd no doubt been through countless times I'd be laughing.

As Torben suggested, if it worried them that much why have they only mentioned it now, no doubt knowing the new equipment is being rolled out.

I really don't have much sympathy with the RMT. They throw their toys out of the pram way too often and it all becomes a bit "boy who cried wolf" for me.

[boosboss]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Current rates:

a. ?41,500 annual salary (basic). No idea what the

overtime is like.

b. Drivers also have a final salary pension

scheme, a 35 hour working week and nine weeks?

annual leave

a. rounded up slightly. Drivers are not allowed to do overtime (except during a service emergency) for saftey reasons.

b. hours rounded down, annual leave rounded up (36.5hrs/43 days) Still good though!

Torben Pieknik Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

but Sean in

response to your question about why these trains

don't have the kit:

- new Victoria line trains will be start to be

introduced within the next six months they have

this kit fitted - fitting the kit now to the old

trains would take longer than that.

- the RMT haven't raised this issue before in the

past 40 years these trains have been in operation.

- the purpose of the safety procedures is to

ensure that if the doors are opened incorrectly

then no one is hurt, this guy didn't follow the

procedures and someone could have been hurt,

luckily they weren't. 18 drivers have made this

mistake in 5 years, 16 of them still have their

jobs because they followed the procedures.

They don't not have the kit because of the promise of new rolling stock, they don't have it probably because of the cost of installing it. When Correct Side Door Enable (CSDE) was first introduce a promise of a 20 year wait for new stock would have been laughed out of any boardroom. I'm struggling with your claim that the RMT haven't raised concerns re CSDE since it's conception?

18 Victoria Line drivers may have made the mistake in the last 5 years, but how many other tube line drivers have made the mistake and been saved by having CSDE? (There is no statistic for that because the CSDE prevents the action of the driver from becoming a noticable mistake, but given the number of lines and an average per line of 18, you're looking at 216 errors). Had CSDE been fitted to the Victoria Line stock, it wouldn't be 18 mistakes and 16 jobs kept, it would be 0 mistakes made and the following statistic redundant. Also if the CSDE was installed, there'd be no requirement for a procedure to be adhered to following an avoidable mistake.

Most stocks have had saftey feature added in retrospect of safety issues, even when new rolling stock is planned, ie Bakerloo RBPS.

The driver didn't follow a procedure that needn't have been followed had appropriate safety features been added to the trains as per the 11 other tube lines? See the argument's not that simple! However, a procedure was in place so should have been followed. I'm just glad I don't have to decide which argument I'd support.

skidmarks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

If the track maintenance guys went on strike it

would take weeks if not months for anybody to

notice ? so they don?t the poor sods.

If the maintenance guys go on strike, the trains don't run! The lines and trains are checked nightly for safety and the drivers would not drive unchecked trains on unchecked track. So a maintenance strike would have an immediately noticable effect, as it did during the last maintenance strike just a couple of years ago.

[boosboss]

skidmarks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, tube drivers can?t drive the train through

red lights as the train would automatically stop.

Next time you?re at the platform look down and you

see these little shoes that rise and fall. All

drivers are responsible for it acceleration,

braking and opening the doors. Now the guys who

check these safety systems they?re the ones

responsible for passengers? safety.

A driver can drive through red lights, but you're right the train is stopped automatically by a piece of safety equipment called a tripcock and trainstop. Another piece of equipment introduced to enhance passenger safety and one that is rechecked by drivers after it's been checked by the guys responsible for initially checking it. :))

If only the drivers responsibilies were as simple as you state there'd be no need for the procedures, protocols, extensive training and ongoing testing that there is.