'Charter East Dulwich' Consultation - call for unity

[intexasatthe moment]

" I'm afraid it is the recent education policy coming home to roost. Academies and free schools are in control of their own individual admissions policies and Southwark seemingly totally out of the loop of the whole process. There is also an absence of a strategic education body setting a London-wide education plan to coordinate across boroughs (vis Lewisham unilaterally changing it's admission to distance). It's total chaos! "

BornAgain highlights the bigger picture . Is there any way that all this high feeling could be used in a more constructive way ? Is there any point in lobbying Southwark to set up an Admissions Forum ? If one existed would it have any power ?

[confusedbyitall]

" it feels harsh to criticise James Barber when he was the one who got this all off the ground in the first place and has clearly devoted hundreds of hours to the project. And he may well have gone to one of the other two meetings, for all we know."

I need to make this clear that JB started the ball rolling getting together the steering group but its the group that has put in hundreds of hours. He was also against the SPACE campaign including the petition....its all on here.

He hasn't been to any of the meetings.

[gh]

I went to the meeting.

The team from Charter came across as great group of competent and professional people with one thing on their minds - delivering an outstanding school in permanent buildings ASAP on the hospital site. We all need to get behind that sole objective. Its not an easy task to stand in front of a packed room with some strong emotions, without being able to give much certainty over exactly where the new school will be, when it will be ready and where a temporary school will be located. Given those constraints they were a great team.

The future head particularly was really encouraging - calm, confident, approachable, dedicated, experienced, ambitious...

The issue of most debate at the meeting and as noted above, was of the nodal point. This will determine the admissions for this school for future generations, To me the only choice is to be in the middle of their site, whenever that is known. Anywhere else, either on the plot, or even off it as some suggest, will be hugely contentious and divisive for the East Dulwich community.

[LondonMix]

GH-- was the SEN priority issue discussed at all?

[HannahSE23]

Yes, but so far they're sticking with siblings taking priority over SEN as they say it won't be an issue because the maximum number of places they expect for siblings will be around 60 meaning there will be plenty of places for those children with special educational needs.

I have to agree with everyone else that those on the Charter panel were excellent. It's indeed a thankless task and they came across really well. It was the angry prospective parents that were wholly offputting and would make me think twice about sending my son there!!

[bornagain]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> " I'm afraid it is the recent education policy

> coming home to roost. Academies and free schools

> are in control of their own individual admissions

> policies and Southwark seemingly totally out of

> the loop of the whole process. There is also an

> absence of a strategic education body setting a

> London-wide education plan to coordinate across

> boroughs (vis Lewisham unilaterally changing it's

> admission to distance). It's total chaos! "

>

> BornAgain highlights the bigger picture . Is there

> any way that all this high feeling could be used

> in a more constructive way ? Is there any point in

> lobbying Southwark to set up an Admissions Forum ?

> If one existed would it have any power ?

Thanks intexas, I agree that we need to see the bigger picture as given the current policy and the policy proposed by the new government (more free schools and academies) this disfunctional system will get worse not better. So far, the primaries are in the main still under Southwark control but they are being picked off one by one and turned into academies - Dulwich Hamlet, Harris and the new Belham are all academies now.

I know that there are many journalists out there amongst the parents of East Dulwich. Would anyone be interested in writing about this situation (the bigger picture rather than the ins and outs of the nodal system). It is something that needs to be discussed more widely and if possible changed.

[LondonMix]

Hoonalonna-- thanks for the update.

The more this situation evolves, the clearer it becomes that when parents feel (wrongly or rightly) that something as important as their children?s education is at stake, it is hard for most people to rise above their personal self-interest.

Admissions should absolutely not be determined by local consultation. Simple and fair rules should be implemented at a broader regional level by people with no personal stake in the outcome.

The ?Big Society? is a nice idea but clearly doesn?t work in practice! Turns out, people are more Lord of the Flies in their approach?

I think a lot of this is driven by fear as well. I?m sure most of the parents will be totally normal people once the dust settles.

I?m going to post some information on school catchments that will hopefully make people feel better. The situation really isn?t that dire and all of the schools within a few miles of this area are really quite good. We are all very lucky.

[MsMaz]

Hoonaloona, just to be clear, the priority of siblings is over children with exceptional medical, social and/or psychological needs, not SEN (although a child with these circumstances may also have SEN)

Those with SEN and have EHC Plans (formerly Statements) will have first priority. Then Looked After Children, then Siblings, then Exception Circumstances (as above). It is this that was questioned as most schools would put it above Siblings.

However, there have been comments about the lack of content about SEN support in Charter's ethos/vision. Although they say they will be a fully inclusive school, it really is up to each school how they offer specialised SEN support to pupils that have some SEN Needs (but who don't have an EHC Plan). I would like to see more detail on this, too, and have put this on the survey.

I'm not sure whether the amount of SEN pupils is above or below national average in the current Charter.

[bornagain]

This Charter or nothing mentality is depressing and lacks imagination. There are many good secondaries in the local area that are really worth considering. There are the Harris schools (Girls, Boys and Peckham), Elm Green and Deptford Green are also considered to be very sound.

I have experience of both Charter and Harris Girls and I would rate the latter more highly in terms of pastoral care. The Charter 'ethos' also may not suit all children. They seem to nurture the high achievers more than the others and I think that if your child is not that confident (and few teenagers are) the school may not be for them. I am of course talking about the current school but I suspect that this 'ethos' will be something that will be carried on to the new school.

Around 8 years ago Kingsdale was seen as the sink school of the borough. It had high truancy and many other problems and the parents of the leafier south of the borough shunned it. Then some imaginative (and brave and middle class) parents embraced it. They sent their children there and with some imaginative admission policymaking the rest is history. It is a terrific success story and I'm sure it could be replicated with say Harris Peckham Academy. After all Peckham is cool now - isn't it?

[MsMaz]

Thanks bornagain, I think you're totally right and we (including myself) have been caught up in that mentality and it's damaging and divisive but as as Londonmix says, mainly driven by fear. In recent years, many parents from camberwell and east dulwich have seen Charter or Kingsdale as the only choices to attempt, yet we've heard good stuff from all the schools you mentioned. I wish we'd all embrace these other schools more (including myself!). I'm worried about the effect of this new school on those schools though - will they be shunned even more?

[HannahSE23]

Ah thanks for clarifying Ms Maz

[bornagain]

I am not sure by what you mean by 'shunned'? Shunned by whom? By the type of parents who were there at the meeting last night? Who cares? If the school you choose is good and your child is happy that's all that matters.

[LondonMix]

The most recent offers for the schools near the Southwark border are below. As Lewisham has historically banded, I?ve included the longest and shortest distance of bands of each school. Now that they are distance only, the furthest distance offer, should be somewhere in between these extremes. As you?ll see, if you live in East Dulwich or Nunhead, you have a very strong chance of getting into a number of these schools. This is of course in addition to the Harris Girls and Boys ED, Harris Peckham, the New Charter, and the Kingsdale.

? Deptford Green School- 3,391-5,402m (CO-ED / postcode SE14 6AN)

? Forest Hill School- 2,611-6,523m (Boys / postcode SE23 2XN)

? Prendergast Hilly Fields College 1,085-1,632m (Girls / postcode SE4 1LE)

? Prendergast Ladywell Fields College 3,844-7,314 (CO-ED / postcode SE4 1SA)

? Prendergast Vale College 952-2,975 (CO-ED / postcode SE13 7BN)

? Sydenham School 3,392- 6,453 (Girls / postcode SE26 4RD)

[bornagain]

Thanks LondonMix - and don't forget that some of these schools eg Predergast, Kingsdale and Haberdasher Askes have special aptitude admissions for music (and other talents) where you are not restricted by distance. I know someone who lives near the Elephant who will be going to Prendergast Hilly Fields on a music admission next September.

[LondonMix]

And to add to Bornagain's earlier point, Harris Peckham is already good academically without middle class support. The majority of the pupils do very well there particularly in math! Better than the Charter in fact... It's not a sink school by any stretch of the imagination.

[James Barber]

Hi Colabottle,

I had a a family event booked ages in advance - hence my non attendance. But the consultation event was surely about parents not councillors. I've given my initial input to this consultation. As councillors we have lots of other opportunities to give our views on this.

AS the original instigator of this school campaign - the only site available is the Dulwich Hospital site and NHS health plan on building a new health facility n the eastern third of the site.

In a perfect world I was always clear the site would have been about 1/2 mile SE of where it actually is to be in the centre of need. The mapping of supporters also shows this - great to be proven correct on that.

But with so much contention about nodal points I suspect it will in the end come down to crow flies to the main entrance on East Dulwich Grove.

Hi confusedbyitall,

I can assure you me and my ward colleagues Cllr Rosie Shimell and at the time Cllr Jonathan Mitchell put in many hundreds of hour before a steering committee was even proposed by us. Much of it over xmas and New Year 2013/14. To suggest otherwise would be perverse.

[JDR]

Londonmix do you know the distance for the current Charter as well? You seem very knowledgable 😀

We are now very fortunate with our schools.

http://www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/archive/dfe1x1_03.pl?Mode=Z&Code=&School=2104303

In 2003 the school had

26% of pupils at Waverley got 5 a-c grades

40% of pupils in Southwark

53% in England

This is the results for Waverley as was! If you scroll to the bottom of that page it shows how awful the school was. This was why it was closed and reopened with new management. Inspite of everyone's fears we are exceptionally fortunate with regards the quality of schools available to us. Children thankfully seem to be more resilient about this than the parents are ( myself included) apart from anything else, teacher friends still say to me that the biggest influence on your child will be the environment that is provided at home ie you and you're friends and your expectations. That is your child "normal" and they'll try to fit in

[LondonMix]

According to the update posted on the other thread it was 1,121m this year and just over 1,500m last year.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1518231,page=4

[landsberger]

> AS the original instigator of this school campaign

You're not going to let us forget this, are you, James ?

> But with so much contention about nodal points I

> suspect it will in the end come down to crow flies

> to the main entrance on East Dulwich Grove.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you. I think Charter will decide what's best for Charter, to be honest. I don't think parents' views will figure, nor elected representatives. So long as the admissions criteria are broadly seen as fair, then, if the Schools Adjudicator is asked, they will come down on the side of Charter. Particularly given Charter is an academy.

[intexasatthe moment]

The Schools Adjudicator's findings re how Charter were implementing their admissions policy makes fascinating reading . He/she was clearly furious with what had been going on .

[landsberger]

Indeed - the policy is one thing - the practice is another matter entirely. It's all a matter of keeping difficult/low achieving/special needs children at arm's length.

[kristymac1]

James Barber Wrote:

>

> In a perfect world I was always clear the site

> would have been about 1/2 mile SE of where it

> actually is to be in the centre of need. The

> mapping of supporters also shows this - great to

> be proven correct on that.

>

> But with so much contention about nodal points I

> suspect it will in the end come down to crow flies

> to the main entrance on East Dulwich Grove.

James, at the recent consultation meetings, Charter's proposal is to site the nodal point in the far north East corner of the site (Jarvis road), quite a distance north and away from the bulk of residents in East Dulwich than we were originally led to believe (and seemingly still your understanding)

[LondonMix]

I'm curious what Charter told parents. Every thread from the Charter I personally saw always said it would be straight line admission from the school as did their documents.

Did individual campaigners intentionally mislead some parents?

[landsberger]

I assume they told them what they wanted to hear...

[pork chop]

"Did individual campaigners intentionally mislead some parents?"

This is becoming divisive and the 'only answer' is to put the nodal point in the geographic center of the school. I hope the steering group take note.

There are two reasons for this:

1). Building a strong sense of community is vital for the school to work. The whole project has been built on the idea of a community school, and the nodal point position (on its own) has created lots of division. Everything else that needs to be discussed seems to have everyone 100% on board. Who doesn't support additional outside space for children to run around.

2). The panel were excellent at the Heber meeting, and have been at previous meetings. But, the handling of the nodal point seems clumsy to say the least. In earlier meetings the south-eastern section of the site was discussed as a location for the nodal point. This would mean roughly where East Dulwich Grove meets Melbourne Grove. The rationale for positioning the nodal point was given (to be on the eastern side of the site away from the current Charter school) and presumably this south-eastern tip recognized that the main entrance will be on East Dulwich Grove.

Now the position has moved 200-300m to the north, which is enough to effect a number of families to the south of ED and take them out of the catchment.

It may be that the hospital occupying the south east corner of the site has caused a change in where the nodal point should lie, but this has also skewed the perception of the process to seem unfairly favouring one community over others.

To retain this community identity the nodal point has to be in the middle of the school. We can then get on with talking about all the positive things needed ? a great design for buildings or outside space or great teachers.

Put it plumb in the middle and be done with it.?!!