Horrific attack on Taulford Place - sharing in case anyone saw anything?

[Otta]

Ah yes, I didn't read the headline at the top.

And a teaching assistant to. So that's his life completely screwed then (good).

[Otta]

And apparently Child Destruction can carry a sentence of up to life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_destruction

And GBH Nwith intent isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.

[oliviaandmilo]

Can't feel sorry for the guys that decided to do this, it would have been planned and to follow that filthy behaviour through, only deserves a serious life changing punishment. Nothing excuses their behaviour.

[buggie]

Although in this situation, for whatever reason the system didn't work (and this could be that the caller didn't manage to convey the severity of the case - call takers can only make decisions based on the quality of info given). No doubt there will be a case review, and that any changes required will be made.

The idea of the set of assessment questions is that nothing is missed & the call taker is able to get all information required - without this important questions/pieces of info could be missed and in a life threatening situation (ie not breathing/cardiac arrest), would not delay the dispatch of an ambulance.

It is really important to let them ask the questions and collate all info and does follow the Airway, breathing, circulation model that any emergency triage assessment is based upon.

It's often easy to criticise people doing jobs that many wouldn't want to do themselves - the pressure (around 4500 calls a day, abuse they often face and the immense emotional stress - even after my years in A&E I was always appreciative of the care and calming effect LAS crews/call takers had often had on families paving the way for us to take over.

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I felt physically ill when I read about this

> > yesterday. Never ceases to shock, how some

> people

> > are capable of such disgusting behaviour.

> >

> > Quite possible that it was treated as a low

> > priority because the caller didn't convey the

> full

> > details. Wouldn't be so quick to jump to

> > conclusions regarging the ambulance service.

>

> Jeremy.. We had an emergency at Curry Club when

> one person was suddenly taken very ill..

>

> On calling the Emergency Services the caller was

> asked what seemed like an list of

> pre-prepared questions and would not listen to

> any details the caller was trying to convey

> saying. "I did not ask you about that. Just answer

> the questions"

>

> I can only assume the answers to the questions

> merit points and that the number of points

> determines the urgency of the situation.

>

> Not the best system IMHO.

>

> DulwichFox

[Blah Blah]

Absolutely awful attack.

Personally I find it hard to understand that an 8 months pregnant woman being seriously assaulted would be anything but an emergency for the ambulance service.

[LondonMix]

Agreed

[Saffron]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Absolutely awful attack.

>

> Personally I find it hard to understand that an 8

> months pregnant woman being seriously assaulted

> would be anything but an emergency for the

> ambulance service.

Agreed. And any attempt to shift blame to the caller seems incredibly wrong-headed in this particular case. Something seems to have terribly wrong with LAS in this case. :-(

[Jeremy]

I don't think anybody is trying to "blame" the caller! Of course not. But I wouldn't want to assume that the ambulance dispatcher, in full posession of the facts, decided this wasn't a high priority call.

[Otta]

I just hope lessons are learnt without them having to scapegoat somebody.

[DulwichFox]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think anybody is trying to "blame" the

> caller! Of course not. But I wouldn't want to

> assume that the ambulance dispatcher, in full

> posession of the facts, decided this wasn't a high

> priority call.

From what I've read, the dispatcher does not make the assessment.

The dispatcher asks a set or pre-prepared questions and records the answers into a PC.

where a computer program makes the assessment based on the answers given.

It would seem that in this case the system failed.

We will have to wait for the results of any pending enquiry..

DulwichFox

[Jeremy]

Could well be a software bug, Fox. Hopefully this will all be reviewed properly and promptly.

[JohnL]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Could well be a software bug, Fox. Hopefully this

> will all be reviewed properly and promptly.

It's the Algorithm ? - mind you I remember the same issue when my father died in 1979 (not that it would have helped)

an earlier one ....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/523599/Man-999-call-ambulance-bath-gallstones

And here's the moral "He fell through gaps in the system because he was not pushy enough,"

[Jeremy]

Again, it's pure conjecture. There could be any number of reasons why the call was prioritised incorrectly.

[JohnL]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Again, it's pure conjecture. There could be any

> number of reasons why the call was prioritised

> incorrectly.

Agree - I suspected with my dad they assumed he was already gone.

Some of the decision making has to be heartless in a way.

[Blah Blah]

Relying on a computer to assess calls is completely wrong imo. It's what happens when public services try to cut costs by taking any kind of decision making away from staff. It means they don't have to know anything and are cheaper to employ.

I once had to attend to an injured (traffic accident) woman while passing and someone else called the ambulance. In spite of knowing exactly what to do I got exasperated at the person on the other end of the phone who wanted to ask me a long list of questions. I cut her short, telling her I knew what I was doing and an ambulance was required right away. Now if I had to be forceful in that way, what chance do non medical people have? (Glad to say the ambulance on that occasion arrived within five minutes and the woman made a full recovery). There has to be an inquiry into the system I think. It's not the first time things have gone wrong.

[Nigello]

Why did the police wait an hour (according to reports) before the ambulance came? Surely they could have taken the victim to the hospital? I am assuming there was more than one police officer - they usually arrive in great numbers.

[Bluerevolution]

Police CANCELLED Ambulance request after an hour and took her themselves, they took a "face of it" risk assessment and couldn't accept the situation as stood. Ambulance service is not to blame, they can not cope with the cuts that have been made and it will only get worse

[Jeremy]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Why did the police wait an hour

Maybe because they thought the ambulance was on the way, and they thought that moving her without the correct procedure might worsen the injuries?

[kudo1]

More info :

http://adf.ly/1HHwe7

[Otta]

Think that's probably it. My initial thought was why the hell didn't they just take her, but they probably felt it would be too great a risk until it became clear the ambulance wasn't coming.

Agree with BR, the fact is simply that there are not enough resources.

[northdulmum]

Just watching London news now. Another case of ambulance not turning up when they should have, to a man attacked for his bike.

Pretty depressing and I suspect it's everything to do with cuts.

[Saffron]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I don't think anybody is trying to "blame" the

> caller! Of course not. But I wouldn't want to

> assume that the ambulance dispatcher, in full

> posession of the facts, decided this wasn't a high

> priority call.

Perhaps I should have said responsibility rather than blame.

Statements such as caller didn't state severity or give correct details etc, are IMHO shifting responsibility/blame to the victim in this case, and constitute a weak protocol in general. That is not the same as pointing blame/responsibility at a single dispatcher, which I'm not herein implying. Against the backdrop of cuts and within the constraint of scripted protocols, this seems to be an institutional problem, and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

[Jeremy]

Saffron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> Statements such as caller didn't state severity or

> give correct details etc, are IMHO shifting

> responsibility/blame to the victim

Look this is getting silly. It was just an example of one scenario which MIGHT have occurred. Not shifting blame at all. My point was simply that we don't know the full facts and jumping to conclusions is not helpful.

[minder]

Let us hope and pray that Malorie is recovering from her terrible ordeal. She should have had total priority surely as a pregnant woman of 21 and what had happened.

Earlier this year my family called for an ambulance for my Dad. God rest his soul he has since passed away, but we were told to wait up until 4 hours for an ambulance.

[Loz]

northdulmum Wrote:

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> Just watching London news now. Another case of ambulance not turning up when they should have, to

> a man attacked for his bike.

>

> Pretty depressing and I suspect it's everything to do with cuts.

But isn't the ambulance service part of the NHS, and so therefore not part of the cuts?