Lost child - Madeleine McCann

[TillieTrotter]

I know what youre saying MP, but it is hard to stop talking about. I would feel guilty if I stopped thinking about it!

[Asset]

I'm not sure we can say it's none of our business. You could follow that argument to a conclusion that anything which does not directly concern us is none of our business i.e. situation in Zimbabwe and Iraq as mentioned above. I think it is more about having a collective conscience.

[Keef]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> Excuse my ignorance Keef, what is acuity?

Basically, it's the sharpness / distance of vision... When you look at a snellen test in the opticians (the letters on the chart), most people can see that there are letters there, but can't necessarily pick out what the letter is, that will judge their acuity.... In America, perfect acuity is 20-20. Here it's 6-6 meaning you can see from a distance of 6 metres what you "should be able to" If you could only see the top letter, you'd be 6-60, meaning that you can see from 6 metres what you should be able to see from 60... If you can't see the top letter, you're getting towards being registerable as blind.

See HERE for a better explanation.

See HERE for a thing about Madeleine McCann, it has a picture of her eye, so you'll see what I mean by the key hole effect... I have the same thing in both eyes, but my eyes are so dark you don't really notice.

Sorry to have gone way off the topic again :-S

[dulwichmum]

I am so sorry that some of you seem to have the attitude "shit happens". This could have been us. This could have been my child. This could have been your child. I care about every child, I care about my child, I care about Madeleine - she could have been Freya.

I AM TAKING THIS PERSONALLY.

I wish we could afford a Mark Warner holiday.

BRING HER HOME!

Please remember that poor boy who was molested for six weeks by paedophiles, including a stint over the cab office in Camberwell. All children desserve a childhood. Leave them alone. Shame on those bastards.

SEND HER HOME...

[snorky]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> I'm can't see how maintaining a high profile in

> the press can possibly help matters concerning the

> investigation, which surely is the only real thing

> of import here. Finding the girl and putting away

> whoever abducted her.

> Whether read about it on the front pages, or

> whether we find out about every nuance of the

> accuseds' lives in a trial by press is neither

> here nor there and, frankly, a little disturbing.

>

> I appreciate many of you with kids can empathise

> and are genuine in your thoughts and prayers, but

> it's none of our business ultimately. We don't

> know these people and we never will.

>

> Sorry, I'll back off again.

This whole scenario is eerily reminiscent of the Peoples princess wailing and gnashing of teeth business of a decade ago.

yes it terrible, yes its apalling, yes its sad, but...As you said, I dont know them & I never will.

I cant grieve by proxy

I didnt have an all night candlelit Vigil when Linda McCartney died or for the dead of 911.

I cant grasp how the parents may feel, but does anyone lese get get this slight feeling that something is out of kilter here ? and I dontr mean with the incident itself, but with our reactions and the way the public is being manipulated ?

I had better back off also.

I have just returned from Albania and had 4 year old homeless children dressed in rags hassling me for money. These kids were also sleeping rough and spending their time sniffing solvents as an escape - and the mountains of Northern Albania are still chilly even in April/May.The majority of the the kids in the world dont have a "childhood" as we know it.

[Asset]

Yes you had - this is an issue that has got to the hearts of people, parents or otherwise and is invoking strong reactions.

I have not been manipulated by the media in my sadness about this bacause frankly I find it too upsetting and am avoiding reading anything about it.

I know the argument about bad things happening all over the world etc and "shit happens" but this incident is unspeakably awful.

Lots of people did have candlelit vigils for the dead of 9/11 and if people want to do things like that to help them deal with a situation then I think they should be allowed to without derision from anyone else.

If we want to discuss the situation on this forum to help us deal with it then too bad - you don't have to read the thread or get involved.

[snorky]

Comment removed as it would be an utterly futile venture to try discuss this situation sensibly and obejtively.

[TillieTrotter]

Well said Asset.

[snorky]

and who says that society is dumbing down ?

[Asset]

Not entirely sure what you mean by that comment. Are you insinuating perhaps that we are not intelligent and rational people because we are affected by this story? Are you implying that because you are not bothered by it everyone who is is somehow an inferior, weaker and gullible human being?

Actually the media are starting to question their coverage of this so don't worry it will all be forgotten about soon and that family can get on with the rest of their lives never knowing what happened to their daughter.

[TillieTrotter]

Stick to your earlier posting Snorky, as you said this cant be discussed objectively, too much feeling involved.

[snorky]

Did i say I am not bothered by it ? I have experienced both Mark Warner and have sub School age kids, so It is a rather crass and arrogant assumption to say I am not bothered by it.

My post was merely questioning the trend towards mass mourning/minutes silences/manipulation by the press in the past few years.Why do many people - tens of thousands - now feel to urge to go to this child myspace site and register as " friends" ? or light a candle ? What good does it do apart from make yourself feel better ?

Im sure psycologists would provide a much more interesting take on this whole scenario

Whilst understanding that this is a terrible situation , I cannot understand why there is a thread about people you dont know, who dont live in your town or county, with whom you have no connection with apart from maybe a similarity in the ages of your children or whatever.

[TillieTrotter]

I cant understand why this bothers you so much. If its not to your taste, avoid it. The fact that this thread has run into 3 pages indicates the need SOME people feel to talk about this situation.

[*Bob*]

Snorky is 'talking' about the situation, is he not?

[TillieTrotter]

Youre quite right BOB. But without getting argumentative for the sake of it, Snorky is belittling those of us that just simply need to keep expressing our feelings over this. I dont light candles, or feel the need to sign any books, havent visited the website etc, and I know what Snorky means to a degree. I also dont feel the need to defend my feelings about this all the time.

[Asset]

Yes, after a fashion - and I admit saying that snorky was not bothered by it was presumptious (not sure about crass and arrogant) and I apologise for that but I was feeling a bit hot under the collar at the time. My issue is whether or not we should be allowed to feel the pain for the family and not be told we are being weak and indulging in mass hysteria.

[*Bob*]

Personally: when I think about why there are yellow ribbons and for this girl and not for another, it starts to leave an unpleasant tabloid taste in the mouth. I can't help thinking about all the other parents of disappeared children left wondering why their kid didn't deserve a ribbon.

[Keef]

The ribbons in parliment made me sick! Bloody pretentious media grabbing tossers, like they give a flying f**k!

To be honest, I can see why people are so upset, but at the same time, I feel myself more agreeing with Snorky and Mockney... Basically, it is awful, but does anyone think that the people putting the girls face on the front of the paper really care that much if she's alive or dead...... I suspect that so long as they're selling lots of papers to those that do care (and in so doing, making sure they continue to care, and buy more papers), they're happy either way.....

It's a cr@ppy media country...... In a couple of weeks time, it'll be the winner of Big Brother, and this poor little girl will be confined to a half page on page 11 :X

[TillieTrotter]

I think that in this instance the Tabloids et al are being used for the good on this occasion. And of course every missing child deserves equal coverage and maybe this will set a standard for future disappearances which will surely be a good thing.

[Keef]

I'm not so sure... Yes it's good that people are being reminded, but is it good that people are having a go at the Police over there? I still believe that the drivers of the tabloid machine really couldn't care less.

[dulwichmum]

I am sure the McCann family are not agonising over the motives of the newspapers, simply hoping that blanket coverage will shame someone into telling them where she is, alive or dead.

But for the grace of God go the lot of us. Any child lost is one too many. God forbid that some group of dreadful child abusers have her. I think that her parents would do anything to keep her profile in the media, and I think they are right to do it.

[Huguenot]

Mass hysteria has an interesting background.

Sociologists observe that mass hysteria usually takes place when large groups of individuals feeling 'guilty' about something identify a scapegoat upon which to project their anger: in finding and destroying a victim the mob absolves itself of responsbility.

For the Diana 'People's Princess' episode, I felt that the most extreme reactions were seen amongst the groups who most fed on the tabloid frenzy that eventually destroyed her: they wanted/still need either the paparazzi, the government, the monarchy or the secret service to shoulder the blame and suffer a penalty.

It's like a mediaeval blood sacrifice.

For 9/11 it was mostly Americans unfamiliar with random acts of violence that indulged in the hysterical clamor for reprisal and revenge; it seems to me that they were struggling to resolve the question over whether their culture and the rapaciousness of their society (and hence themselves) were really to blame.

The MM situation has parallels (although I don't believe they're entirely appropriate):

I'm guessing that there must be a vast amount of mums, dads, older siblings, guardians and carers who can imagine a moment in their lives where they weren't paying as much attention as they believe they could, and they could have been victim to a similar crime. I can number myself amongst them.

The fact that MM was beautiful, that the parents were professional carers, and that the event took place on a carefree holiday compounds the sense of unfairness.

The obvious and rational solution is to love and care for our nearest and dearest a little bit more carefully next time. We can never be absolved of responsbility.

An hysterical reaction, with its mass media coverage, absence of rationality and easy creation of scapegoats can be a deeply disturbing reaction to those of us who see our society becoming increasingly fragile. As much as it feels good, mass hysteria gets the wrong people hurt. Current potential victims are the parents, then police, and innocent bystanders.

I don't think the MM reaction is hysterical - but it's walking a desperately sharp knife edge.

[Alan Dale]

DM - I find all your appeals for prayer and help from God a bit unnerving. Don't you think that in the light of events such as these then either God doesn't exist or at least He's got a fair bit of explaining to do?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Huguenot

Well posted - it has managed to say what I've scrapped 4 posts trying to say

One of the other things bothering me is the multi-million reward offers.

Am I wrong in thinking that there is surely something wrong with anyone who could report anything which may help find the girl but won't unless the price is right?

I'm glad people aren't thinking "well it's nothing to do with me and mine so..." but the extent of emotion from those of us so far removed from the scene unnerves me

[TillieTrotter]

I just dont understand why you should feel unnerved by this emotion. I do believe that it can go too far, ie, ribbons, candles, visiting the shrine etc, but really what is wrong with sharing the grief. It unnerves me that it unnerves you. This is a normal human reaction surely.