Secret deal to axe the planned Victoria-Bellingham service (via Denmark Hill & Peckham Rye)

[Eileen]

If you use the local rail services you will be interested in the latest local rail news from Southwark Rail Users' Group (SRUG) http://www.peckhamvision.org/brg/srug There has been a secret deal between TfL and DfT (Dept for Transport) to axe the planned Victoria-Bellingham service (via Denmark Hill & Peckham Rye). A campaign to reverse this is starting. You can help:

* sign the web petition - see http://www.gopetition.com/online/27426.html

* join the Facebook group -

* further background -

Victoria link traded for ELLX2 ,

Victoria services under threat

This latest decision, like the one to axe the Victoria-Denmark Hill-London Bridge service in 2012, shows the low priority the rail industry gives to our inner south London connections into central London. We have to change that. Take action now!

____________________________________________________________

ACTIONS

* email your views:

to Lord Adonis (the Rail Minister) at: [email protected]

to Boris Johnson at: [email protected]

cc to your elected representatives (select from list at end)

cc to the local press: [email protected], [email protected]

* please forward this email to your friends and neighbours

* email [email protected] to get on the mailing list to be kept up to date.

___________________________________________________________

CAMPAIGN AIMS

The campaign asks the Department for Transport and the London Mayor

* to rescind the decision to remove the vital SLL (South London Line) train service which runs between Victoria and London Bridge via Battersea Park, Wandsworth Rd, Clapham High Street, Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye, Queens Rd Peckham and South Bermondsey.

* to extend the platform lengths at Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road stations to allow the existing Dartford to Victoria services to call there.

* to extend the existing SLL service beyond London Bridge to Charing Cross.

The campaign also calls for Southwark & Lambeth Councils to join in lobbying the Mayor of London for the retention of the South London Line Services.

____________________________________________________________

Some elected representatives:

* Southwark MPs: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

* London Assembly Member, Lambeth & Southwark: [email protected]

London Assembly Member & Southwark Councillor: [email protected]

* South Camberwell ward, Denmark Hill station:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

* The Lane ward, Peckham Rye station: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

* Nunhead ward, Queens Road Peckham station: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

* Southwark Council Leader: [email protected]

Southwark Council Executive Member for Transport: [email protected]

[SeanMacGabhann]

A planned change? Or a secret deal?

I can see why people don't like the changes, but what is with the "secret deal"?? It's been known about for ages hasn't it?

[PeckhamRose]

How did you know about it then Sean? And did you tell us?

[Eileen]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> A planned change? Or a secret deal?

>

> I can see why people don't like the changes, but

> what is with the "secret deal"?? It's been known

> about for ages hasn't it?

No, this is totally new - it is the cancellation of the plans for a new service between Victoria and Bellingham in 2012. This was planned to *replace* in part the to-be-axed Victoria-London Bridge (South London Line(SLL) service. It was a key part of the South London Rail Utilisation Strategy, agreed by the Office of the Rail Regulator. The result would be that, in additon to the two trains an hour to London Bridge lost through the axing of the SLL, two tph to Victoria would be lost. Those losses have to be added to the 2 tph to London Bridge lost through the recent cut of the service to East Croydon. The secrecy aspect is that NO ONE even in the rail industry outside TfL and DfT knew aything about it. It slipped out in exchanges bewteen Clapham Transport Users' Group and the DfT. Rail User Groups alerted others, and London Travel Watch have criticised it as deceitful. see the * further background links above on Victoria link traded for ELLX2 and Victoria services under threat.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I didn't need to - Eileen posted about the same thing last year

[Eileen]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> I didn't need to - Eileen posted about the same

> thing last year

Sean - please read the further background links and you will see this is NEW and ADDITIONAL cuts.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's Sunday and maybe I am slow... but what is being cut doesn't actually exist? It was a planned service and now, because of budgetary reasons, it isn't happening? Which is disappointing.. but outrageous and secret?

[Eileen]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> It's Sunday and maybe I am slow... but what is

> being cut doesn't actually exist? It was a planned

> service and now, because of budgetary reasons, it

> isn't happening? Which is disappointing.. but

> outrageous and secret?

Yes. Read the petition - see the link above, and if you want more detail look at either of the pages in the further background links shown above.

[ratty]

anyone watching the snooker?

[ruffers]

I'm with Sean - can't see how you can cut something which doesn't exist yet?

And the secrecy that no one knew about it? Does that mean what I'm having for my tea tmorrow is a secret cos only me and mrs ruffers know?

Genuinely struggling to get too agitated at this.

Higgins all the way/

[Sherwick]

I'm with Eileen. This appears to be a cancellation of a replacement for another to-be-cancelled service.

In other words, not good for people who use Denmark Hill to get to the centre.

[Mark]

ok, I've tried reading the links and links from those links etc but could someone summarise what effect this has on trains from East Dulwich?

[PeckhamRose]

Oh Mark do SOME work yourself. Eileen MBE has a life too. ;)

[Mark]

I read this http://www.peckhamvision.org/brg/srug/save-our-south-london-line-campaign and it told me nothing and then it asks me to sign a petition and email lots of people with my views.

This tells me more http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=643 but says "Particular losers as a result of the proposed changes will be those travelling to Victoria from ... East Dulwich" and as far as I'm aware trains don't go to Victoria from East Dulwich. Or was this the service that was proposed but has now been scrapped in a secretive deal?

[Sherwick]

as Eileen explains above, "This was planned to *replace* in part the to-be-axed Victoria-London Bridge (South London Line(SLL) service", which I think passes Denmark Hill.

Now, I'm pretty sure that many people in East Dulwich go to Denmark Hill to catch trains to London..

[Michael Palaeologus]

I have temporarily crawled out from beneath my bed as the sky, as yet, has not fallen on us.

I thought that the whole idea of re-organising the transport links was to relieve pressure on the central London stations; in this case London Bridge and Victoria? The London Overground (known to all as the East London Line Extension) will take people to transport nodes to the east and west of the centre, thus allowing folks heading to the City/Canary Wharf or points west to do so without needing to travel through these already congested central stations.

Given that the ELLE has now been confirmed, it is inevitable that some existing or planned services will change as part of this re-wiring of the transport system. This was always the plan.

The advantages for us is that we will at last be on the Underground map (albeit overground) and a wider spread of travel, the disadvantage is that we will lose the convenience of some direct services; BUT, how many of us actually work in Victoria or London Bridge? Some, but most just pass through.

The alternative to this spreading of the routes into town is the destruction of Borough, its historic buildings and the Market as London Bridge is expanded.

[monica]

Eileen has been amazing with her local campaigning and I hope she carries on the good work. Eileen If you would like any help please pm me.

Thanks

[Eileen]

Mark Wrote:

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> I read this

> http://www.peckhamvision.org/brg/srug/save-our-sou

> th-london-line-campaign and it told me nothing and

> then it asks me to sign a petition and email lots

> of people with my views.

But it gave the key links to take you to the place where it was explained in much more detail. The key place for background on this is the preamble to the petition, and that is why it is the first link, as it enables you to read the detail before deciding to sign the petition. Would love to spell out this in detail for the first webpage but few would read that far!

> This tells me more

> http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=64

> 3 but says "Particular losers as a result of the

> proposed changes will be those travelling to

> Victoria from ... East Dulwich" and as far as I'm

> aware trains don't go to Victoria from East

> Dulwich. Or was this the service that was proposed

> but has now been scrapped in a secretive deal?

The service in question is between stations Bellingham and Victoria via Peckham Rye & Denmark Hill. The LTW press release is confused as the service in question doesn?t go through East Dulwich station, though it does serve East Dulwich residents who use Peckham Rye or Denmark Hill stations. Pity London Travel Watch is so hazy about the geography round here. When I spoke to their Press Office and pointed out the confusion this would cause (now demonstrated by this exchange) they said it was OK as they meant East Dulwich area not the station, and Nunhead and Peckham areas were in East Dulwich.

[Eileen]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

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> I thought that the whole idea of re-organising the

> transport links was to relieve pressure on the

> central London stations; in this case London

> Bridge and Victoria? The London Overground (known

> to all as the East London Line Extension) will

> take people to transport nodes to the east and

> west of the centre, thus allowing folks heading to

> the City/Canary Wharf or points west to do so

> without needing to travel through these already

> congested central stations.

Yes this is a key purpose for the new orbital link which will be completed by the East London Line Extension between Surrey Quays and Clapham Juncation.

>

> Given that the ELLE has now been confirmed, it is

> inevitable that some existing or planned services

> will change as part of this re-wiring of the

> transport system. This was always the plan.

>

Yes but the reorganizing spelt out in the South London RUS (Rail Utilisation Strategy) that was consulted on last year made it crystal clear that this Victoria-Bellingham service was part of that re-wiring to replace part of what was lost by the axing of the South London Line Victoria-London Bridge service in 2012. i.e. this Victoria-Bellingham service is part of the plan that was approved by the Rail Regulator. No other part of the rail industry, never mind simple users, were consulted about this significant change in what had just been agreed as part of the plan.

> The advantages for us is that we will at last be

> on the Underground map (albeit overground) and a

> wider spread of travel, the disadvantage is that

> we will lose the convenience of some direct

> services; BUT, how many of us actually work in

> Victoria or London Bridge? Some, but most just

> pass through.

The campaign aims to ensure that this data is acquired and made public. It is just not sensible to plan such major infrastructure on guesses and hunches and anecdotes about who travels when and where, and what the trends might be given the regeneration and housing developments happening in this swathe of inner south London.

[Huguenot]

Knowing the craving public bodies have for endless research, I can' imagine anyone missed up the chance by making decisions based on hunches.

Someone somewhere's got a map of the final proposed solution. Can we have one of those?

[Sherwick]

Huguenot Wrote:

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>

> Someone somewhere's got a map of the final

> proposed solution. Can we have one of those?

The plans are on display at the local Council offices... in a locked filing cabinet in a disused toilet in the basement.

[Eileen]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> Knowing the craving public bodies have for endless

> research, I can' imagine anyone missed up the

> chance by making decisions based on hunches.

It looks as if they did in this case...

[Gimme]

Am I the only person who doesn't have the foggiest idea where Bellingham is...?

Is there something there that I'd like?

[Eileen]

Gimme Wrote:

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> Am I the only person who doesn't have the foggiest

> idea where Bellingham is...?

> Is there something there that I'd like?

I am sure you are in crowded company. I had to Google it ? Peckham Rye-Nunhead-Crofton Park-Catford-Bellingham. But the key point is not whether you want to go to Bellingham from here, but whether you want to go to Victoria. Wherever the train comes from, if we lose it, it means a reduction in our services to Victoria. That is the impact for us of the axing of the Victoria-Bellingham planned service ? 2tph (trains an hour) lost; and the one Victoria service left (2tph), not running in the evenings or early mornings. The subject of my original post, which was the South London Line, was changed. That was more useful as the posting was about the continuing reductions in our direct services into central London, and labeling it with Bellingham detracted from that. I hope to post more news in a new thread shortly.

[zephyr]

but is it a reduction if it does not already exist. I frequently use Nunhead and would agree that the Victoria service at the moment is a pain - I generally use the service the Elephant instead and that even goes strainght to St Pancras, Kentish Town, Luton and St Albans now.