Green and Blue

[Bellenden Belle]

I was enjoying a platter and glass of wine yesterday afternoon in Green and Blue when the owner/ manager/supervisor decided to hold an incredibly loud meeting at the table next to me with two other members of staff about sales tactics and how to motivate the shop staff to shift champagne - creating staff incentives for sales of six bottles or more.

I am not so naive to think such shops don't operate to make a profit but it strikes me as thoroughly inappropriate to hold such crass conversations loudly while customers are trying to enjoy a meal. It left a very unpleasant taste in the mouth.

Funny that a shop that seems so PR savvy should not have the good sense to demonstrate discretion and profesionalism in the the shop itself.

[81_colt]

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[*Bob*]

BB - How about making your feelings known there and then (seeing as the staff were sitting on the adjacent table) - instead of suffering in silence and then scurrying home to post an anonymous complaint, knowing that the owners read posts here?

[Bellenden Belle]

Exactly - I am not suggesting the meeting doesn't take place but there are alternatives. I used to work in retail when at university and we regularly had such meetings - but always before the shop opened. And certainly if information was conveyed while the shop was open, it was done quietly- this was one of those awful conversations that reverberated around the room - the man seemed quite enamoured with his sense of authority - so there was no way one could ignore the conversation.

[Keef]

Poor old G&B, what more can they do. I've said before, it's not really my kind of place, but it strikes me that they try harder to please their customers than most places, and yet they get more bad press (for not a lot) than anywhere!

[Bellenden Belle]

Quite frankly, I am not in the habit of making scenes in restaurants - and I didn't scurry here, but since this forum does seem to comment freely about experiences around East Dulwich, particularly in cafes and restaurants, then I saw no reason why this wasn't an acceptable post.

[bawdy-nan]

Hello Bellenden Belle I'm afraid you have to be quite careful on here when posting about your experiences with local businesses and especially when making criticisms that do not concern the behaviour of the clientele.

I suppose the idea is that this is a community rather than a consumer website and, as such, should reflect the needs and wants of the entire community - commercial interests are highly visible in ED and, I suppose, that's reflected here.

In my opinion I think that you should be able to express your experiences but sometimes it feels as though it is preferred if you express delight and gratitude at the exceptional range of goods and services available in this thoroughly delightful elysian arrivistaville.

You may, of course, debate the pros and cons of the increase in house prices and whether children clog up the streets in an annoying manner!

Council services / ecological issues are often up for grabs (you may wish to include a link to Cllr Richard Thomas' website).

For what its worth I think that your comment is quite interesting and totally inoffensive, but certainly wouldn't make me shun the place

Try not to feel reprimanded - please continue to post as you find...

[Bellenden Belle]

Thank you very much for your kind and balanced reply.

Can I just say that I would hate you to shun the place - that was not the intention of the post at all - I happen to actually like Green and Blue - I think it is reasonably priced and the service splendid. I just wanted to let off steam since the behaviour really wasn't on - and actually I think independents need to have standards as high as anywhere else - and that includes an awareness of the environment they are creating and the message they send out to customers.

So what next should I comment on? Well I had dinner at Le Chardon this week.... mmm, now there was an experience in lack of customer service! I am surprised I didn't post that day too!

I am not usually this grumpy!

[bawdy-nan]

BB - i totally agree with you. :))

[dulwichmum]

Dear Bellenden Belle,

Poor you.

I think Bob has been terribly harsh on you. When you are out having a meal - it is not necessarily going to enrich the experience - raising an issue of this sort with the owners of a restaurant. God only knows what delights they could organise for your pudding in the kitchen when you have said your piece.

Bob, - Ms Bellenden Belle put her name to what she had to say, every bit as much as you put your name to what you had to say. Do you own Green and Blue or something? To my mind an anonymous complaint is just that - signed "anonymous." BB is probably someone who has been following the forum for a while and hasn't had reason to post much. Her opinion is as valid as the opinion of those who post here all the time.

I am really sorry if Green and Blue have been having a hard time on the forum, I am sure it is a super shop/restaurant, but I personally am fascinated to hear about how indiscreet they have been with regard to their sales tactics. I love to be a fly on the wall... I really don't get out much, can you tell?

Green and Blue are just lucky they were not so indiscreet with a journalist sitting at the next table!

Keep posting Bellenden Belle, all contributions are welcome. I didn't think you were offensive at all.

DM XXX

[*Bob*]

D-Mum,

Alas I cannot agree with you on this one.

BB went to G&B and had her lunch 'spoiled'. So in retaliation, she popped onto 'The Forum', knowing full-well G&B read comments (having responded to some only yesterday) - and made a complaint. Ha! Revenge is sweet!

I don't find the posting offensive. I just think it's a bit.. weasily. If you really like the place, maybe a quiet word would have been better than starting a new thread entitled "VERY ANNOYING BEHAVIOUR AT GREEN AND BLUE" and posting it in front of several hundred of their potential customers.

[Bellenden Belle]

Bob, It is you that owns Green and Black, isn't it?

So how many bottles of champagne have you sold today?

[Bellenden Belle]

And thank you Dulwich Mum for your friendly post... as a regular lurker on this forum, I feel greatly privleged to receive a positive response from a Dulwich Forum Figurehead such as yourself!

[dulwichmum]

Sweet Bellenden Belle,

Thank you so much for being so kind. Obviously every girl loves a compliment, but perhaps the volume of postings I put on the forum can be used as an indication of my lack of a social life? I think everyone who is reading (I don't think lurking sounds very kind myself) should take courage and post, everyone is wellcome, everybody is entitled to an opinion. We are a very friendly lot on here, always ready for a debate or a chat. Your opinion is probably more welcome than mine - empty vessels and all that?

I think that the forum is a wonderful resource for Dulwich and all of South East London actually. It gives a fabulous sense of community. Please do not be put off posting on here, I will look out for your comments in future.

I am not trying to be hard on you Bob, I just think that we all need to be measured in our response to what people say on the net. In many ways this is a great way to communicate, but there is nothing to assist with our interpretation of the written word here on the internet. There is no tone of voice to assist with interpretation, no non-verbal communication etc. Sometimes people are very brave with their comments when they think their words cannot be traced back to them. I have had a terrible time being bullied on my blog,and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

If we read something we don't like, sometimes it is best to just move on and read something else, perhaps come back and reply to it later if feelings continue to be strong? Taking a swipe at someone and leaving them to read what we have said can be incredibly destructive.

DM

[*Bob*]

D-Mum,

"Taking a swipe at them and leaving them to read what we have said", you say.

Doesn't this illustrate my point entirely? Does this thread serve any purpose other than for BB to take a swipe and G&B in public, knowing that they'll read it, thus serving them right?

We're going to see more of these sorts of threads, I fear:

"I ordered soup in Le Chardon - AND IT WAS COLD!"

"Somerfield GAVE ME THE WRONG CHANGE!!"

"Does anyone think the aircon is TOO COLD in the Surma?!?!"

If this site is to become simply a means for people to complain indirectly to local shops - to avoid the shame of having to do it in person (or by a private email if preferred) then it'll be a much less interesting place.

For the record, I've never been into G&B - not since the re-fit anyway.

[Bellenden Belle]

Bob,

My observation was placed here because actually I think people do want to know what to expect when they go into a place for a relaxing drink. And actually I find it quite ironic to see appalling behaviour in a shop which clearly has an effective PR machine - my experience contasted sharply with the image portrayed in recent newspaper articles about the shop. And quite frankly what a dull forum this would be if we only logged on to say what a fabulous shop this is, what a wonderful experience we had at such a place - painting a smug picture of utopia that ignores all the ways that we can actually improve our manor.

And you know what - if the said team do read this, and subsequently have a little more thought about their customers, then Green and Blue will be a better place for it.

I don't see why you are acting as a censor Bob - this is an open forum after all.

[*Bob*]

I don't think I could ever be accused of 'painting a smug picture of utopia'.. hee hee!

Oh well.. I suppose now we have to wait (again) for G&B to rock-up and apologise (again) - until the next time someone someone doesn't think their Sauvignon is cold enough and posts on the forum, awaiting their pound of flesh.

I'm not acting as censor - I'm engaging in a debate. Isn't this the point of a 'forum'? Let's rumble! Vive la difference! (etc)

[Bellenden Belle]

I don't want an apology from G&B, thank you very much - saying "we're terribly sorry" wouldn't make a jot of difference. What's done is done.

Bob, I am sure you are usually quite friendly - but as a newcomer I have found your "rumble" quite stifling - and your choice of words rather off-putting. A pity, since I think you could easily have put your point of view across in a more pleasant manner.

[*Bob*]

Why should I put my point of view in a pleasant manner. You haven't held back:

According to you, G&B were 'Inappropriate', 'Crass', 'Unpleasant', 'Awful', 'Appalling' and treat their customers with 'Contempt'.

All I've suggested is that if you've got something to 'discuss', then this is a great place for it. But if all you have is a 'complaint', then perhaps the establishment in question should hear it first before you bad-mouth them on a public forum?

[dulwichmum]

Look, we are all friends here, and this is getting rather heated. Why don't we all go to Green and Blue and have a drink?

[Bellenden Belle]

Hear hear Dulwichmum.

I have tried to be reasonable with Bob ... but his attacks have become more and more personal. I even tried to inject some humour into the situation - but this has become thoroughly unpleasant.

[*Bob*]

I'd rather drink with HITLER

(And thus, "Godwin's Law" comes into effect. Phew! It's all over. Let's all have a cup of tea and a biscuit!)

[sgp]

Bob,

I think you are being quite harsh to BB.

The web is full of consumer sites and forums filled with customers discussing their experiences about businesses. Sometimes the experiences are bad but businesses, well those who are sensible, often use these comments to improve their services. Green and Blue should actually learn from what is being said rather than feel fear at losing custom.

And most visitors to these sites also appreciate the candour with which other customers describe their experiences. That's why things such as feedback ratings on eBay, reviews on Amazon and comments on food and travel sites are so popular.

Its the way of the web and long may it continue.

sg

[dulwichmum]

Dear Bob,

Assam? Milk and sugar with that?

Garibaldi anyone?

DM

[bawdy-nan]

There is a difference, isn't there, between setting up your stall on a high street and setting out your stall on an internet forum?

A shop or other business can't expect the same levels of privacy, or indeed, courtesy, that are accorded to private individuals.

G&B, and indeed any other business, sets up and invites the public inside in order to make money. Fair enough, of course, but the relationship is constructed around the fact of a commercial transaction.

If I'm disappointed by a lover its right and proper that I address it with them first rather than singing it to the rooftops. A shop or restaurant operates in a very public sphere and should expect public comment positive and negative. That's part of the rough and tumble of a vibrant market-place isn't it and why businesses generally try to work hard to retain customer goodwill.

Surely it is within the rights of a customer and member of the public to pass comment on their experiences. BB found her trip to G&B uncomfortable, but she's not asking anyone to shun the place, says she usually likes it and just wanted to pass on her observations - why on earth shouldn't she? I shouldn't think the reputation of the place is tarnished, and if it is, thats their own fault and maybe they'll realise that people come to their place because they like the atmosphere, food and drink - thats what they're paying for and its not unreasonable to expect that they get it - rather than an accidental peep into current sales tactics.