Crime Rate in Dulwich

[lenk]

It's not about 'getting over it'. If you're a vitim of crime, my deepest sympathies etc.

It's beating the drums and working people up into an abject fear of anyone who isn't exactly like them that is the problem.

It tends to result in things like erosion of civil liberties, 'if you're not guilty you've nothing to hide'-type laws, and intolerance.

Which is worse than the statistically-unlikely (to ED residents) crimes you're so afraid of.

[matthew123]

>> It tends to result in things like erosion of civil liberties, 'if you're not guilty you've nothing to hide'-type laws, and intolerance.

If it means erosion of civil liberties to nail criminals to the cross then so be it

[JetSetWilly]

Brendan Wrote:

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> No I?m not suggesting vigilantism, paranoia or

> anything of the sort but increased awareness and

> public pressure does affect public policy.

>

> Increased knowledge will also make people more

> likely to take proper precautions.

>

> Suggesting that people should just get over it is

> not only insulting to the victims of crime but

> counter productive toward building a better

> society, which is what each generation?s duty to

> the next is. Surely?

so what do you suggest they do, get over it or sit quaking behind a locked door. crime happens its a fact and by living in a city one is more likely to be exposed to it than if one resided in the scottish highlands, the reality is that the chances of becoming a victim of crime are not particluarly high, whereas the fear of becoming a victim of crime is out of proportion to that reality.

[KalamityKel]

BigPhil Wrote:

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> Dulwich is no different to anywhere else in

> london

> I am in Pinner , Middlesex at the moment

> we had 2 massive fights in december in the high

> st

> a stabbing in a block of flats (drug related)

> a stabbing in the high st ( one brother stabbing

> another while high on drugs )

> 2 of my currewnt customers are wearing the ankle

> rolex's at the moment ( both nicked for fighting

> in streets)

> 1 old lady mugged and left to die on a street in

> broad daylight

>

Sounds like an average day at school around 10 yrs ago. Crime doesn't go away. It either is not discussed or it is.

[snorky]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> >> It tends to result in things like erosion of

> civil liberties, 'if you're not guilty you've

> nothing to hide'-type laws, and intolerance.

>

> If it means erosion of civil liberties to nail

> criminals to the cross then so be it

shite.

[SeanMacGabhann]

That's frightening matthew

[Brendan]

Can you not see the irony in making a statement like this,

?It's beating the drums and working people up into an abject fear of anyone who isn't exactly like them that is the problem.?

Directly followed by this?

?? and intolerance.

Which is worse than the statistically-unlikely (to ED residents)?

I really don?t think that constantly ?beating the drums? is going to work people up into some sort of neurotic mess, fearful of anyone who is not like them. Most people don?t think that way.

What it will do is make the people who work for us in the council and police aware of what the issues we expect them to address are.

[summerjt]

Read this thread with interest, thanks everyone for their views on the subject. I'll throw my twopence worth into the ring - what do people think about security cameras (CCTV) in Lordship Lane? Are there any? Should there be? I know in Camberwell there are loads around Camberwell Green. Not sure what effect it has on crime, but I reckon it has an effect on so-called antisocial behaviour.

[lenk]

summerjt Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Read this thread with interest, thanks everyone

> for their views on the subject. I'll throw my

> twopence worth into the ring - what do people

> think about security cameras (CCTV) in Lordship

> Lane? Are there any? Should there be? I know in

> Camberwell there are loads around Camberwell

> Green. Not sure what effect it has on crime, but

> I reckon it has an effect on so-called antisocial

> behaviour.

It's worth reading this.

One argument against CCTV states that it's akin to 'bobbies on the beat', ie a vote-winner and ineffectual.

http://www.glalibdems.org.uk/resources/index/Policing%20London

[lenk]

Brendan Wrote:

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> I really don?t think that constantly ?beating the

> drums? is going to work people up into some sort

> of neurotic mess, fearful of anyone who is not

> like them. Most people don?t think that way.

Do you not think?

It's a microcosm of a society like the US, constantly in fear of an unknown perceived threat (but the safest nation in the world)

Not saying ED is the safest part of London, but it's no Homerton

[SeanMacGabhann]

would people feel safer/notice less crime hanging around Camberwell Green (loadsacameras) or Dulwich Village (rather fewer)?

The question isn't which area do you prefer - just pointing out how little cameras do to improve crime. Which is important when people say "but it makes me feel safer"

[SeanMacGabhann]

"Homerton"

flippin 'ell... flashback. I forgot I even lived there. Glyn rd. Miserable. Just checked the house on google.. still miserable

[Brendan]

I know plenty of people in ED and none of them think it has a specifically high crime rate or are paranoid in any way. I think most people feel it is a very pleasant place to live for SE London but it is still SE London.

I am however pretty sure that they all appreciate knowing what?s going on in neighborhood. If that means that when the next council elections come up they ask the candidate who knocks on their door what they are going to do about the little old lady next door who got her pension money nicked then all the better. Or tf it means that they become more aware of anything dodgy going on and they report it to the cops or if there is a specific issue people become aware of it and collectively take it to one of the community meetings the cops have then, good.

All these things make a difference.

Talking about Camberwell Green and cameras, I don?t think the cameras make much difference as it is pretty much the same now as it was 6 years ago.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I AM on your side Brendan, really I am - but just a few posts earlier we have someone saying they would gladly give up their (and our) civil liberties if it meant reducing crime. That sounds like paranoia to me (or over-reaction at least)

[sophiesofa]

Having lived in New Cross, Deptford and Lewisham and I have a boyfriend who grew up in central peckham East Dulwich feels to me like a utopia. I do think people should keep their wits about them but i don't think it's worth living in constant fear.

[evelknievel]

Brendan, the Police don't work for us. Not any more.

[Asset]

I think I'd rather not know and be in a state of blissful ignorance thinking everything and everybody is (are?) lovely.

[Brendan]

Don?t get me down that route Sean. I?ve been dismissing them as lunacy but when my mind wanders down that line of enquiry I start seeing government plots to erode the power of people over their communities making them feel unsafe and thereby making them (the people) think that Orwellian control is the only thing that will ensure their protection.*

?and breath?

Perhaps I am paranoid but I?m paranoid about the right people.

*This isn?t the same thing as communities knowing, talking about and influencing what goes on around them.

[Will_i_am]

cazkid Wrote:

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> All i've heard about

> is Burglaries, Muggings, Drug Dealings and Theft!

Did anyone mention dog fouling? That's a serious problem too.

[lenk]

Asset Wrote:

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> I think I'd rather not know and be in a state of

> blissful ignorance thinking everything and

> everybody is (are?) lovely.

I'm talking HARD CRIME STATS.

ON MASSIVE ANIMATED BILLBOARDS ON GOOSE GREEN

PUBLIC NAMING AND SHAMINGS

POLICE GIVING CASH REWARDS FOR TURNING IN NA'ER DO WELLS

NNNNGggg sounds awesome.

[JetSetWilly]

Will_i_am Wrote:

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> cazkid Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > All i've heard about

> > is Burglaries, Muggings, Drug Dealings and

> Theft!

>

>

> Did anyone mention dog fouling? That's a serious

> problem too.

and nicking daffs.

[LegalEagle-ish]

I think a big problem is the police/CPS league tables because if the CPS think that taking a criminal to court might cost a lot, or be difficult to win, they just tell you that there is not enough evidence.

In the past crimes that would have been prosecuted because there wasn't so much at stake if the Police/CPS lost the case, just aren't even getting to the courts, so loads of people who may have bottled it and pleaded guilty if they had actually been prosecuted are getting away with crime.

The standard expected to take a case forward has been raised too high, so people who expect justice are not getting it, and people who commit crimes know that unless they are very stupid, they are unlikely to be prosecuted.

I can't remember where I read it, but what affects crime rates, is not length of sentence or severity of the punishment as much as the liklihood of actually being prosecuted.

The system is set up all arseways at the moment. If there is a chance that someone actually committed a crime, they should be prosecuted and let the court and jury decide on the facts, not the CPS who bail out far too quickly. I think shorter/community sentences but more frequent prosecutions if there is a suspect are a better way forward.

[louisiana]

I'm with snorky on this one. There are a few criminals. They are not nice. But there is little point in demolishing all our liberties just in case something happens sometime, particularly when you consider most measures are usually both expensive and ineffective.

[antijen]

How did the complaints of crime from the people of camberwell get dealt with,they got cameras which southwark council agreed only if the shop owners would partly pay which I believed most did, but were extremly pissed off about, then there was a murder outside mcdonalds not long after they'd been installed, did they get footage? no, they werent working they had to ask etc (shop) to look at there cameras they had set up independantly. As for the police they managed to victimise what seemed like anyone under 18, treating them like criminals and eroding our childrens civil liberties, even with children who did not have a set view on them.

[MrBen]

I have to agree with the original poster. ED is great compared to many places I've lived. But from my personal perspective, the crime rate HAS risen in SE22 over the past 6 months relative to the 6 plus years I've lived here.

Since Feb I've been burgled, had my car broken into, personal stuff stolen from a public place and two people I know have been badly mugged. Versus past five and a half years where the only bad stuff I saw was in 2004 when a helicopter landed by the CPT to airlift the poor guy in the post office (who had just been shot) to hospital. Have I just been unlucky? I honestly don't think so. Recent frequency of events doesn't justify that.

I'm not sure what the reasons for this are. Its a recession but how does that effect petty crime? Less middle class cocaine being sold? Knock on effects? Drug sales aside these guys are off the mainstream economy anyway aren't they?