Green and blue, water, and the law

[iamyamyam]

My Wife's just come back from a night out at Green and Blue with some mates. Along with her wine and food she asked for some tap water, the waitress refused saying they only sold bottled water!

I always thought it there was some legal obligation for licensed premises to provide tap water free of charge. Does anyone else know if this is correct? Does it only apply to pubs?

whatever the legal obligations, I think it's a bit tight not to give people who are paying good money for wine and food a glass of tap water. There are a lot of environmental objections to bottled water:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article344959.ece

I can only imagine it helps some people pretend they're in France or Spain when they're in SE London.

last time I was in green and blue they were making a big deal out of selling "enviromental" hessian shopping bags - not a very consistent message.

[Huguenot]

No there's no law on the provision of potable water in pubs & bars, although it is a requirement to provide handwashing facilities when providing a loo. 1984 building regs set rules for loo provision, and EC law stipulates that this public supply should be potable, as is also the requirement in France & Spain. The water-buying habit's a legacy thang. There's a good article on the history of this here.

Although apparently it will be mandatory to provide water over the bar in Scotland from 2009...

BTW, do you know, there's only one public toilet for every 18,000 Londoners?

They don't call me 'Mr. Interesting' for nothing.

[*Bob*]

Big thumbs DOWN to any establishment who won't give you a glass of tap water.

Big thumbs UP to establishments who put a bottle or jug of tap water on your table before the wine / food arrives - without asking.

It's amazing how a little bit of goodwill in a small area (costing a business relatively little) can bring about more (wallet-opening) goodwill from the customer..

[Mark]

I definitely agree with you *Bob*, there's a pub in Borough (The George I think) which has a constantly full jug of water on the bar along with some glasses for punters to help themselves to. Nice touch.

[mockney piers]

Of course the George takes does take some advantage out of its historic uniqueness and the fact it's on every tour of the city, to charge about ?8 a pint, so a little goodwill for the price is nice ;)

[Keef]

Agree that any place that won't give tap water to customers who're paying good money for other stuff is out of order! Shame, as GandB were doing very well on this forum for customer service :-S As for The George, I've never found it overly expensive... Are we talking the same place, cobbled alleyway off the high street? Would tend to go for Market Porter if in that area :))

[Chartwell]

I can't understand why they wouldn't provide a glass of tap water, especially, as has been said, that customers are spending good money on wine. It seems a bit off to me. Perhaps the owner of Green and Blue might come on here and provide an explanation. I have never heard of that happening anywhere else, even in some of the more top range establishments.

[Huguenot]

Well I would have guessed it's pretty clear why it happens...

In the grand scheme of things a wine bar's profitability relies on the revenue developed per 'cover' (or chair) per day.

If a bar is only half full, it's easy to serve water as it represents no 'opportunity cost' to the bar owner by depriving a potential spending customer from occupying the location.

Indeed it may increase revenue as passersby will perceive a bar to be popular according to the number of people present rather what they're drinking - and they'll want to share the experience.

As soon as a bar is full then a punter drinking water is costing the company money be depriving it of a spending punter's revenue.

The potential trade off is that one non-spending customer may influence others to spend more, or to come back and spend more at another time.

I'll be betting that this is the call of the manager depending upon how full the bar is, how many are waiting for seats, and how large the overall customer base is. Hence policy may vary. Fixed rules can sometimes seem illogical, and flexible rules can sometimes be misapplied. Either way there's plenty of opportunity to upset the punters, but also plenty of opportunities for badly handled logistics to put the bar out of business.

If that happened it would be bad for all!

[Keef]

Thing is, we're not talking about someone going in, taking up a seat and just drinking a glass of tap water whilst reading the paper, we're talking about someone paying for food and wine, and wanting something to clear the palette out with.

[mockney piers]

I've just remembered that I went to G&B with my brother a few weeks back, he asked for water and the waitress said tap water, my brother nodded and that's what we got.

So either the policy has changed, the waitress didn't know or the taps were broken.

My guess anyway.

[Chartwell]

...but iamyamyam did say that his wife asked for the water 'long with her food and wine'. I can understand that the manager would not be keen to offer water if nothing else was being drunk or perhaps one glass/bottle of wine was lasting all night and they were busy. Not allowing a customer to have a glass of water has the serious potential to affect the customer experience and as we all know bad news travels fast, especially via such things as this forum.

[Huguenot]

I guess so, since we can all see this, I'm sure that G&B have considered it as well.

What I'm trying to suggest (and possibly mockney too) is that there may be logical reasons for this rather than just the assumption that they don't care about their customers and they want them to have a bad experience, or that they're daft.

We weren't there, and we don't know the context, so I think it makes more sense to hold judgment rather than assume the worst :))

[Chartwell]

Quite true we don't know the context other than what has been posted. I didn't mean to intend that G&B don't care, as generally the feedback on here is very good, it was a general comment on a specific situation. I really hope that the owner might give us a view.

It wasn't my intention to begin a frenzy of negative feedback as has been seen on other posts on this forum, honest guv'!

[Mark]

I think that there's probably be a reason for this as Mockney says such as a new waitress thinking Tap is a brand of water, I'll ask G&B what their policy is (as alas not everyone uses the forum all the time) and report back.

[*Bob*]

Absolutely, Chartwell. I've seen the 'water' issue at both ends of the scale in restaurants and bars:

I've been into bars/restaurants where I've been offered a separate 'water menu' and been sneered at for asking for tap water. I've been into bars/restaurants which proudly offer 'complimentary filtered tap water'.

I know which establishment leaves me with a warm fuzzy glow and which one slightly disgruntled.

How hard can it be? You sit down, the waiter/ess comes over, puts down a bottle of tap water, pre-filled that morning, and takes your order - and BOOM - you're off to a good start.

Incidentally, this isn't a rant against G&B - just a point about water in table-service establishments generally. I find it hard to believe that I would be denied a glass of water in G&B if I ordered food and wine - and if I was - I'd be complaining vocally to the staff, not on the forum.. I suspect this particular 'watergate' (sorry) may have been the exception rather than the rule. Let's not start demanding that the owner of this or that place has to come and respond to every little gripe at the drop of a hat!

[Jeremy]

One well known pizza/pasta chain offers free bottled filtered water. I know most of us are anti-chain, but some times independent businesses can learn a thing or two from them. (Saying that, I'm not suggesting G&B do the same thing: after all, they are a shop/bar and not a restaurant).

[Keef]

For the record, I'm not having a go at G&B specifically either, and chances are it was just a waitress that didn't know..... I would however want to speak to the manager if I were in that situation... (In ANY place before the G&B gang stress out).

[SeanMacGabhann]

the "G&B gang" - I like that ;-)

I have had tap water in there quite recently too so it does appear to be an exception - still a pain when it happens tho

[Keef]

They're like the Red Hand Gang, but with Crocs ;-)

[TillieTrotter]

Refusing to bring tap water infuriates me, my mum would have dealt with this very firmly but telling them that she would pay for bottled water with the tip that she would have left. I know its not necessarily the waiting staffs fault but she usually gets her way. I really like G & B and hope for their own and our sakes that this isnt their policy.

[Mark]

OK, I just spoke to them at Green & Blue and it's not their policy to refuse tap water. The guy I poke to on the phone said they have to give tap water as they serve alcohol and it's not in their interest to send people away drunk. I then spoke to the manager who backed it up and said it's a futile gesture to refuse tap water and they do provide it when asked. The manager said it shouldn't have happened last night, all the waiters and waitresses know they should give out free tap water if asked so he doesn't know what went wrong.

[TillieTrotter]

Thats reassuring as I have invited my mother for a meal there next week. Embarassing for me when mother goes to war. :-$

[Chartwell]

Hurrah! It was was down to a misunderstanding, glad to see that G&B don't run a 'no tap water' policy. Thanks for checking it out Mark.

[monica]

Hy Just had lunch in GnB and had a lovely experience with (pardon the pun) plenty of water on tap.Great food and great service,bill price meal for 3 and coffee,wine and beer ?25,lovely jubbly (hic)

[templeton]

They do great bottled beers in there as well. Funny that a wine bar does the best beer on Lordship Lane.