Jump to content

Recommended Posts

lostcat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is so sad. Apart from a few exceptions, I

> seem to have found myself among a sea of tory

> voices. Is this representative of east dulwich or

> is it just representative of this forum?



If it was representative for East Dulwich, then East Dulwich would have a tory MP.


It doesn't.


And not everyone on here is a Tory voice, even if they are not speaking up for Labour. Quids for example has been open about the fact he didn't feel he wanted to vote for either main party this time around, although it's clear he was less inclined to vote Miliband's Labour than the Tories. I've no idea how Loz votes.


And of course any Tory people are going to feel emboldened at the moment because the fact is they smashed it out of the park at the GE.



The thing I find depressing is that people are now trying to bury the left and say that the only way forward for Labour is to fight the middle ground, and basically just be Tory lite. Miliband is scolded for being socialist and lefty, and yet their manifesto was not dissimilar to the conservative one.


In Scotland the party with the anti austerity manifesto has wiped the floor with everyone, although there is far more afoot there than just economic concerns, and we shall see how that all works out...


Just after the election I was all for joining Labour (I did) and inviting change. Now I listen to the leadership candidates and I just feel like I can't be bothered ever voting again.


It's all media friendly, scared to offend anyone, souless bollocks.


Only potential positive is that Labour might have a oman at it's helm, which can only be a good thing for women. Even if she is an uninspiring Blairite gobshite.

lostcat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is so sad. Apart from a few exceptions, I seem to have found myself among a sea of tory

> voices. Is this representative of east dulwich or is it just representative of this forum?


You are just falling for the old "if you don't agree with me you must be a Tory" fallacy. I didn't vote Tory. I'm just not of the limited outlook that Tory governments are inherently nasty and evil. Especially when there is a fag-paper difference in most Labour and Tory policies. Your "Labour-good, Tories-bad" view just doesn't bear scrutiny. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, good ideas and bad ideas.


ETA: For Otta: after long consideration of changing my vote, I decided to vote again for the Lib-Dems in hope they would the regulating part of a coalition once again, but unperturbed about whether that was with either of the big two.

lostcat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is so sad. Apart from a few exceptions, I

> seem to have found myself among a sea of tory

> voices. Is this representative of east dulwich or

> is it just representative of this forum?



Labour in only wanting to talk to Labour shocker - that's the party's problem. Never voted Tory in my life, nearly voted LD this time but I would have possibly voted Tory this time if it was a labour/Tory marginal. Didn't vote. Snorks, talk us through how scrapping tuition fees for the richest graduates was anything but regressive?

OK, I understand what you are saying now.Its wrong though.


The effect of fees is to stratify at a young age, eerily remininscent of secondary modern' Grammar skools of yore. The Rich right or left middle class are going to go anyway, irrespective off the presence of fees or not. The poor, faced with a ?50K debt will invariably goive it a miss or go for something terminally dull and vocational where the gamble of the education has a good chance of being paid back.


We do not need nore lawyers or accountans with first class degrees from University of scunthorpe. No one except New Zealand prodces as many accounts as us nowadays, and that is a hell hole of drabness. We need more arts graduates, thinkers and soft subject specialists - not something you can place a tangible value on, not something that lord carpetright of minimum wage wants to see either.


I can feck off ( well not really ) to the Sorbonne or Frei berlin for a few hundred quid a term in fees and actually study a suject that I am interested in.NO one grows up wanting to be a lawyer or an accountant. Education isnt about getting a qualification, its about growing up and thinking.


Of course you wont agree with this, as you probabaly see everything as a bottom line balance sheet.


I interviewed 4x graduate this week for a still to be defined role in a fast moving , etc evnironment. working for me I may add. Thye were terribibly dull people, all with 21 or firsts. having spent all their lives working towards success and qualifications, they had nothing to show, nothing to say, no ideas, no originality.NO spark that makes them stand out . It made me cry



/ ends

There used to be a difference between further education (aka job training) and higher education. Both were open to all but the latter often placed an emphasis on the experience of education rather than the qualification obtained or how fitted it made one for a particular job.


Then Tony ushered in shit degrees for all so everyone could boast a degree on their cv (no matter how debased it now was) and the qualification became all that mattered but, as they were in coat-hanger recognition and button polishing, were less than valued (as qualifications) by industry so became worthless anyway.


The people who suffered were those who had actually dedicated their lives to new ways of polishing buttons or had spent a decade classifying half a million different coat hanger varieties and who were now as ridiculed as the shiftless tossers who did those degrees because they looked an easy route to the qualification.


I once joined a picket line outside my college to protest the fall (in real terms) of the value of student grants. That seems a world away now and I am positive that I would never have attended a degree course if it hadn't been free.


We get the younger generation we are prepared (or not) to pay for.

Maxxi has it right - Blair's mistaken approach that 50% of leavers should go to Uni was a waste of resources. You don't need a degree for theatre studies, etc. Hell, even accountants and nurses don't really need a degree. I'd return things back to a nice balance of degrees, vocational qualifications, apprenticeships, etc, etc. Get degrees back to the traditional higher education areas where they belong.


Germany has it right. Differing ways (indeed, different schools) to get to the qualification you need, depending on if it degree/technical/vocational. But it's so damn sensible it would never catch on here.


And it always amuses me that lefties howl about the current fees system simply because it is Tory policy, as you couldn't really devise a more left-wing approach: the richer pay, the poorer don't. Australia has a similar system and, tellingly, was implemented by a left-wing government.

It's really interesting how you find out things after the event, but might have been better finding out before?


I'm referring to Otta's post and the fact that he didn't know who regular posters were voting for.


Neither did I, but the posters whose opinions matter to me (most don't), have waited this long to even reveal that, even after posting continuously on the election thread & revealing nothing.


It might have been nice to get some advice or at least find out why they didn't agree with me. And I might have PM'd them (so as not to look stupid) if I had any idea who they were voting for. But because I didn't know, I didn't dare!

Sorry Maxxi - I meant in terms of the "give everyone a degree" point you made, rather than funding. I don't have a problem with free university places either (as you say, I benefited from them), but if you shove everyone into a uni, then costs skyrocket and funding becomes an issue. It's all tied up together. And if you are going to charge then the graduate tax concept isn't too bad an approach.


And AqM - dunno of you meant me, but I outed myself as a "usually vote LibDem" person ages ago. But I don't rule out voting for anyone, though - in various election (national, mayoral and council) over the last 20-odd years I've voted Labour, LibDems and (more rarely) Tories.

I did mean you Loz (but others too)


I must have missed your ages ago 'usually vote' post.


Irrelevant now. I did ask for advice on the election thread, but you chose humour over a sensible reply.


And it would be good if the ones who are so clued up and know so much about politics (like yourself), could help those who don't.


(will continue this conversation in 5 years time)

To be fair, AqM, one of your your first gambits was to tell people off for having opinions on the poor, sick, young, unemployed, disabled or foxes when they were supposedly issues that didn't directly affect them. (And erroneous, as I scored on two of those. Though sadly not the 'young' one.)

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Doesn’t seem that simple   according to fullfact that’s a net figure   ” The £21.9 billion was a net figure. Gross additional pressures totalling £35.3 billion were identified by the Treasury, and approximately £13.4 billion of these pressures were then offset by a combination of reserve funds and other allowances. The additional pressures identified were as follows: 2024-25 public sector pay awards (£9.4bn) ”   I don’t think Labour have set expectation that changing government cures all the ills. In fact some people on here criticise them for saying exactly opposite “vote for us we’re not them but nothing will change because global issues”   I think they are too cautious across many areas. They could have been more explicit before election but such is the countries media and electorate that if they were we would now be stuck with sunak/badenoch/someone else with the 14 years of baggage of their government and infighting  the broad strokes of this government are essentially along right lines  also loving ckarkson today “ Clarkson: Your claim that I bought a farm to avoid taxes is false and irresponsible.  BBC: It’s your own claim.  Clarkson: What’s that got to do with anything?” and by loving I mean “loathing as much as I ever have”    
    • BBC and the IFS https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2e12j4gz0o From BBC Verify:   Paul Johnson, director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank said Reeves "may be overegging the £22bn black hole". What about the rest of the £22bn? The government published a breakdown, external of how it had got from the Treasury's £9.5bn shortfall in February to the £22bn "black hole". It said that there was another £7bn between February and the actual Budget in March, as departments found out about new spending pressures and the government spent more on the NHS and the Household Support Fund There was a final £5.6bn between then and late July, which includes almost a month when Labour was in power. That was largely caused by increases in public sector pay. It was the Labour government that accepted the recommendations of the Pay Review Bodies (PRBs), but they said that the previous government should have budgeted for more than a 2% increase in public sector pay. Prof Stephen Millard from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research think tank told BBC Verify: "The 'political' question is whether you would count this as part of the fiscal black hole or not. If you do, then you get to the £22bn figure; if not, then you’re left with around £12.5bn to £13.5bn." It isn't this at all. When you run on an agenda of change and cleaning up politics and you put all of the eggs of despair in a basket at the door of the previous government you better hope you have a long honeymoon period to give you time to deliver the change you have promised. Look at the NHS, before the election it was all...it's broken because of 14 years of Tory incompetence and the implication was that Labour could fix is quickly. Then Wes Streeting (who is one of the smarter political cabinet members and is clearly able to play the long game) started talking about the need to change the NHS before the election - he talked about privatising parts of it (much to the annoyance of the left). He was being pragmatic because the only magic wand that is going to fix the NHS is massive reform - it's broken and has been for decades and throwing money at it has just papered over the cracks. Now Labour talk about the NHS needing 10 years of healing for there to be real difference and people are saying....what..... Words in opposition are easy; actions in government are a lot harder and I fear that given the structural issues caused by Covid, the energy crisis, the war in Ukraine (and now maybe a massive US/China trade war if Trump isn't bluffing) that we are heading to constant one-term governments. I don't think there was a government (and correct me if I am wrong) that survived Covid and in a lot of countries since Covid they have had regular government change (I think what is playing out in the US with them voting Trump in is reflective of the challenges all countries face). Labour massively over-egged the 14 years of hurt (who could blame them) but it is going to make things a lot tougher for them as they have set the expectation that changing government cures all the ills and as we have seen in the first 90 days of their tenure that is very much not the case. Completely agree but the big risk if Farage. If Labour don't deliver what they promised or hit "working people" then the populists win - it's happening everywhere. Dangerous, dangerous times ahead and Labour have to get it right - for all our sakes - no matter what party we support. P.S. Lammy is also one of the better Labour front-bench folks - he just is suffering from Labour's inability to think far enough ahead to realise that some posts might come back to haunt you...but in his defence did anyone really think Americans would be daft enough to vote him in again....;-)
    • My cat has been missing since Sunday evening 17th November he is British short hair male cat colour black with grey stripes. medium to large in size. He is easily identified by a large tooth missing on the top left of his mouth.  He lives in Upland Road just near the roundabout at Underhill Road. His name is Jack but he  only answers to Puss Puss please call me on 0208 299 2275 if you see him.   thank you Linda  
    • I think this could go on endlessly, so I suggest we finish it here!  But why don't you  track down the makers of the sign? Which hopefully has amused a lot of people, as well as brightening my bus journey. Tell  them that their directions to Dulwich are not only wrong, but they do not seem to know where the "real" Dulwich is 🤣 I'm sure they will be delighted 🤣  
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...