Accident by east dulwich station

[sazzle]

There has been an accident looks like it involved a cyclist motobike and car. I hope everyone is ok.

Prob worth avoiding area as traffic is backing up.

[Xena Worried prince]

gosh, it is one of those days, I got caught up earlier in the problems after the Elephant and Castle incident at 3:30(ish) today.... is everyone getting overexcited because of the long weekend , I hope everyone is okay though

[Mick Mac]

Yes lets hope all are ok, when you hear of a cyclist involved with a car you do worry, there was a death outside Sainsburys a couple of years ago, a father of a young family, hope this one is ok.

[sweetgirl]

i just got in, the accident just happened before i got there. motorcyclist has been taken to kings, looked like he was unconscious.....

i have seen & heard of a number of accidents in the past two days!!!!

heard about the one in elephant, which was a bad one, the air ambulance came out to that.

i saw a motorbike accident yesterday in rushey green, catford... i also was in the vicinity of the accident yesterday in peckham!!

its not looking good..... so many accidents in a couple of days!! there was also an incident in oxford st today..... driving on the roads has been a nightmare!

i do hope they all are ok though.

[Sandperson]

The cyclist was killed at Elephant according to the police I spoke to. RIP

[EdieF]

I came through Elephant on the 45 bus this evening shortly before 6. Part of the roundabout still cordoned off, traffic diverted. Lorry still in place, and very distorted bicycle on road. Really horrible.

[sweetgirl]

im not sure if this is appropriate, but i'd like to pose a question..... as the driver of a large vehicle, do cyclists & motorcyclists realise how difficult it can be for drivers of large vehicles to see them? sometimes even sunlight can prevent you from seeing ANYTHING in the mirrors??

i hope not to offend anyone.

[jollybaby]

And there was me cursing the traffic at Elephant. . . . . kind of puts everything into perspective. Mr JB will be wearing extra high viz gear tomorrow.

[Sandperson]

Interesting question. My brother, a seasoned cyclist, was knocked off his bike by a driver who tried to use the sun as an excuse. The police and insurance company attitude was that it was the driver's responsibility to drive to the conditions.

On the other side of the coin, do drivers of large vehicles pay enough attention? I'm sure it works both ways. Good and bad cyclists, good and bad drivers.

[EdieF]

I've seen several times on TV programmes about road safety that lorries have a notorious blind spot - I think when they are turning they can't seen anything on their left, the length of their vehicle (not sure if I've got that correct, but it's something like that). The roads are just so busy in London that it's not surprising there are a lot of accidents. Poor you, Sweetgirl, seeing so many in a few days! It's so horrible to see an accident - far worse for the people involved, of course - but it always makes me feel it could have been me or someone close to me.

[louisiana]

There have been a disproportionate number of women killed by lorries in London.

There is a theory that women ride less assertively - and perhaps therefore less safely - than men. In particular, men tend stick more to the centre of the road/lane, considered by many to be a safer riding position in busy traffic.

----------------

The Times has obtained a copy of the study, which says that 86 per cent of the women cyclists killed in London between 1999 and 2004 collided with a lorry. By contrast, lorries were involved in 47 per cent of deaths of male cyclists.

The findings help to explain why the growing popularity of cycling by city commuters is resulting in frequent deaths of young women in similar circumstances. The death rate among women cyclists has increased since the report was completed, with two killed in collisions with lorries within 24 hours last month.

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[PeckhamRose]

I am not offended, sweetgirl, but it is a very naive question.

The question should be asked of anyone driving a vehicle, that if they know they can not see all around their vehicle from the driving seat, they should take extra care when intending to manouvre, by using those shiny reflective attachments that came free with the vehicle. They're called mirrors. Also, a switch in the car which if nudged to the left or right actually lights a flashing light front and back to the left or right of the vehicle, so we know what you think you may do. That's called indicating. Then use the reflective shiny things again in case what was in the blind spot first has now become visible, then you move slowly. Fortunately, by far most people do this sensibly and safely and I am sure you are one of them, sweetgirl.

Also one can invest in a standard extra attachment that can be acquired in order for you to see more clearly what's around you. It's available from everywhere from John Lewis to the Mind Shop. It's called a CUSHION.

Secondly, as a motorcyclist whose stationary bike was knocked over a few months by a stupid short woman who claimed she could not see out the back of her big 4x4 and so thus it was my fault for buying a small bike, I reminded her that children come smaller than my bike. That shut her up.

Back to topic - do keep us informed of any news regarding this story. I also hope everyone is alright.

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> im not sure if this is appropriate, but i'd like

> to pose a question..... as the driver of a large

> vehicle, do cyclists & motorcyclists realise how

> difficult it can be for drivers of large vehicles

> to see them? sometimes even sunlight can prevent

> you from seeing ANYTHING in the mirrors??

>

> i hope not to offend anyone.

[louisiana]

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> im not sure if this is appropriate, but i'd like

> to pose a question..... as the driver of a large

> vehicle, do cyclists & motorcyclists realise how

> difficult it can be for drivers of large vehicles

> to see them? sometimes even sunlight can prevent

> you from seeing ANYTHING in the mirrors??

>

> i hope not to offend anyone.

According to the judge in a recent prosecution, sunlight is not a defence. You must drive appropriately for the conditions, and those conditions include sunlight.

[Jeremy]

I walked past the accident on my way home. A woman was lying on the ground receiving medical treatment, screaming in pain - I think she may have been the cyclist. There was also a guy in motorbike gear talking to the police. Lets hope the injuries were not too severe.

[????]

Lousiana, equally this may be evidence that men are worse cyclists, if,say, lorries are the most dangeros traffic for cyclists in general, then men additionally get themselves killed more by cars than woman by arsing about and being poorer or more reckless. In reality, you need deaths by gender, by miles cycled...if not it's all hypothesis

[Josh]

kinda sick, this thread. It reminds me of motorists slowing down at accidents to see if they can spot any body parts, blood or disturbing injuries.

[EdieF]

I don't think it's a sick thread, Josh. Accidents always happen, and people are discussing.

[Mick Mac]

The Times has obtained a copy of the study, which says that 86 per cent of the women cyclists killed in London between 1999 and 2004 collided with a lorry. By contrast, lorries were involved in 47 per cent of deaths of male cyclists.

Its interesting and perhaps correct that women may cycle less assertively as you suggest.

I'd say however that these lorry drivers don't see what's on their inside. I'm not a cyclist but I'd say if I was I would NEVER drive up the inside of a lorry or bus, whether they were indicating or not, I simply would not trust them. It seems that most of the deaths are where lorries turn left across a cyclist's path.

It may be that men, in general, cycle with more speed hence being able to get away from traffic more often, but there are plenty of male cyclists dying too, so no cyclist is safe, really its very dangerous in rush hour, too dangerous for me.

I would add that as a driver, cyclists should be aware that drivers have a lot to concentrate on in front of them as well as in the rear view mirror and cyclists should never assume that even a car driver has seen them come up either side of their car.

[Pugwash]

My husband is a cyclist of many years experience. He has always taught me and the children that you never cycle along the side of a large vehicle especially on the pavement side as this is a blind spot. Equally as a cyclist - do not go through red lights as nothing angers a motorist more, who may try to retaliate further along the road by cutting you up. Sometimes it is safer to dismount your bike and walk with it on the pavement or across a busy junction. One way systems like the one around the church at Brixton are nightmares and especially dangerous for cyclists, husband has been knocked off bike a couple of times by motorists clipping his wheels as the rush into a lane. As a driver, I take extra care when passing or driving along side bikes - I imagine how I would feel if my husband was knocked over. I must admitt I have been taken by surprise a couple of times by motor cyclists who weave in and out of traffic and suddenly appear to come from the opposite side of the road having overtaken 6 or more cars waiting at traffic lights.

[MsJ]

I cycled around London for the best part of 10 years before I had my daughter. I never owned a car in that time, but do now and am always give cyclists a wide berth on the roads. However, even I find that I am sometimes taken by surprise by cyclists who sometimes seem to appear from nowhere and realise now that I must have put myself in very vulnerable situations many times in the past. A friend of mine was knocked off her bike and killed in Notting Hill by a lorry only a matter of weeks ago. I can not stress enough how important I think it is that cyclists never take anything for granted. They should never assume that a driver has seen them - of course drivers should drive safely no matter what the conditions - but cyclists ride around extremely busy road in London with little or no protection and need to do all they can to prevent a collision.

[sweetgirl]

one thing just come to mind.... yesterday i was driving in victoria, i was at the lights waiting for them to change to green so i could drive, as i was driving off, i noticed a female cyclist was LEANING against my vehicle whilst waiting for the lights to change! she only moved as i started to move my vehicle......

any ideas what this could've been about??? im sure there was potential for a nasty accident to occur!

[dc]

There is a simple device that can be attached to the passenger window of trucks that costs about ?4. TfL gave away 10,000 of them free last year. It effectively removes the 'blind-spot'.

LCC Fresnel Lens

Photos of the effect it has are here: Fresnel Lens Photos

[EdieF]

There is a floral tribute tied to the railings at Elephant this morning. Very sad.

[tinylittledan]

I am extremely careful when cycling to give large vehicles an extremely wide berth. I have on occassion been forced to leap onto the pavement even by small vans turning corners and cutting me up (not to mention taxis suddenly pulling over and stopping to pick up passengers on red routes!). Cyclists really have to assume the worst, be very alert and take responsibility for their own safety. On this note I was astounded last week to see a man cycling down the Old Kent Road in the roughly 1metre gap between a huge lorry to his right and a bus to his left - needless to say if either had made the slightest move sideways he would have been in serious trouble.

Sweetgirl, the cyclist leaning on your car most likely had her feet in pedal clips - she was leaning on your car so she did not have to put her feet on the ground (and therefore unclip her feet) allowing her to pull away quicker.

[Gimme]

I broke my elbow on the way to work 2 months ago when a transit van suddenly stopped in front of me in the road for no reason. I overtook him and he accelerated and sharply turned right. Didn't even see me coming off the bike as I braked hard to avoid going into the side of him. His mates on the building site he was turning into had to tell him what he'd done.

Add to that the lorry drivers who don't bother to look or use their mobile phones while driving through roundabouts and it's a dicey business cycling to work.

Given the number of cyclists and the number of accidents, perhaps every lorry and van driver should be made to do an extra piece of cyclist awareness training. Small inconvenience to them but perhaps a massive favour to the 3 million cyclists in Britain.

It's just not good enough to say that cyclists should watch out for large vehicles. I'm sure all cyclists do watch out for large vehicles but sometimes we can't do anything about it when they thunder past or turn in our paths without looking.