Are you glad you did music lessons as a kid?

[nunheadmum]

I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with getting kids to practice and being torn between being told it's doing them good but having the kids tell me they hate it - even though I can see that isn't the case all the time, it's just the practice they hate and having to (in their view) give up TV time to do music activities. The girls are musically able so I'm reluctant to let them give up.

Sometimes I do wonder if they'll thank me long term or not as it causes so many arguments. I'm aware that I gave up music as a teenager and really now wish I hadn't. Am I fulfilling my wishes via my kids? But I know others who say they're so glad that their parents made them practice as kids when they wanted to give up as they're now really appreciative of it.

So, when you were a kid and doing music lessons

- did you want to give up, your parents didn't let you and you're glad?

- did you want to give up and still don't forgive your parents for not letting you?

- did you want to give up, your parents let you and you regret it?

- did you want to give up, your parents let you and you're perfectly happy with it?

- did your parents manage to find some amazing way to make it fun so you wanted to do it...what's the secret?

Not a very scientific approach but hoping it may help me decide. Thanks!

[srisky]

For me (a)

Stopped playing at 18 when I went to university, deskilled now but still able to read music. I wish I kept at it but it's not irredeemable and I intend to have lessons again once the kids are older.

[redjam]

This is a really interesting question. I had piano lessons as a child and gave up when I wanted to, pretty much - I don't remember my parents trying to persuade me to carry on. Looking back, I'm very grateful I was given the chance to learn but I don't hold it against my parents that they didn't force me to continue. I was a teenager when I stopped and my poor parents had enough to argue with me about by then. I had a break of some twenty years where I didn't have a piano, which I do regret, though I'm now sneakily relearning it again by practising my seven-year-old's pieces after she's gone to bed!

I guess my own perspective, then, would be to try to persuade them to continue as long as you're able (i.e. when they are smaller and more malleable) but accept that eventually it's up to the child themselves, especially as they get older. I've found that my older child got a new lease of life with her guitar practice when she started doing grades, and we've also recently switched teachers - nothing wrong with our old one but after nearly four years she needed a fresh approach. Both things seem to have kept her keen. Is there also some kind of school band your daughters could join, nunheadmum? How old are they?

[mybaby178]

We have a different problem a child that doesn't want to practice but also doesn't want to give it up!no idea what the solution is!!

[etta166]

I wanted to give up playing the cello at about 12, my parents let me and I'm happy they did. I recently started learning to play the piano as an adult, but I have no regrets about giving up music as a teenager.

[canela]

I did music right through til 18 and really enjoyed it. my parents never made me practise though. I learnt that I had to practise if I wanted to get better and join things like the district band. why not let them learn that? and let them give up if they want to - they might well realise they miss it and take it up again.

once anything becomes about a struggle of will that is all it ends up being about - in my experience at least (sigh). if you want music to be fun for them, then have fun yourself with music, go to concerts, play at home, have friends round to play, dance around in the kitchen?.etc. or take up an instrument yourself and join them at practice times.

you don't say how old your kids are though. are they old enough to have a conversation about why they don't want to practise, or even if they are on the right instrument. I hated piano lessons but loved orchestra instruments. my only regret is that i ended up on the kind of instrument you can only play in an orchestra so i now don't do anything - whereas if i had learnt something a bit more folky or the guitar I'm sure I would have carried on playing informally.

or why not just have a TV limit, so they are forced to do something else anyway!

[Pickle]

Most definitely, as it's something I have continued to do as an adult, and became a source of income!

My parents used to ask me to stop, rather than have to battle to make me practice.

I taught flute for years, and it's very easy for a teacher to tell whether a child has potential. There are kids who are naturals - practice is a recreational activity and is done because they love it. There are others who will never be very good, but gain a lot of enjoyment from it, and they are to be encouraged.

Kids who really dislike playing and require constant hassling probably should be left to make their own decisions. They're not much fun from a teaching perspective, and if it's causing stress at home personally I wouldn't put pressure on them.

[Coach Beth]

I'm glad I did music lessons - I tried violin first and hated it, never got on with violin. Had some piano lessons which I think were useful but didn't carry it on past a couple of years. I settled on flute in secondary school and joined the school band. Anyway, after I left school, I put the flute down but picked it up again in my late 20's - took a while to recover my knowledge but after a refresher course, I got back into it. I started playing jazz and also met my husband of 16 years now at a jazz summer school!

Anyway, our 10 year old son now plays drum kit - he enjoys it but hasn't been particularly committed to practising - however, as he has gotton more fluent on the drums, his motivation to practice has definately improved. We find that he can be more receptive to practice in the morning before school rather than after school. We also just asked him for 5 minutes practice to begin with - now he does about 15/20 minutes about 3 or 4 times a week We also found that because he really likes his drum teacher that is a motivator - his teacher gives clear guidelines to help.

He also goes to the East Dulwich Academy for Music and Performing Arts and he plays drum kit/percussion with the wind band there. I think that when they can play with other children in a band that helps them to see that it is fun to create music with other people.

My husband is a professional musician and believes that people often have an affinity with particular instruments - so maybe allow them to try different instruments. We tried Sam on guitar (husband is a guitarist) but he didn't take to it. But when we went to a musicians party, the drummer let him sit on the drum kit and also play rymthm on a percussion instrument and he looked so natural and took to it like a duck to water.

And, I agree with canela about choice of instrument - choosing an instrument that they can play a range of music on in the future would be good. Although, you can play jazz or rock on orchestra instruments like violin it's not so common. I'm pleased my son is doing drums (despite the volume factor of practicing in our flat!!) - every band needs a drummer! Or bass player.... you'll never go short of work as a musician if you play bass!

[Medusa]

I only learned an instrument briefly as a child so my perspective is that of a parent of two children who play.

During the first couple of years I left both of them to their own devices in terms of practice. I made it clear that the idea was to practise at least five days out of seven but I didn't push the issue. Once they both reached higher grades (ie five upwards) and started doing lots of orchestras and other courses, I set out the principle that I was more than happy to support them and pay for it all as long as they fulfilled their part, which was to practise regularly.

It is STILL a source of battle a lot of the time, esp now they are approaching GCSEs, afflicted by teenage lethargy & ennuie and playing at a level that requires longer practice sessions. I regularly suggest that they might like to give up if they dislike practising so much, but this leads to pitiful squeaking and protests. As long as they practise *enough* to progress adequately, even if not to fulfill their absolute potential,they will carry on, but I wouldn't dream of forcing them to continue. Music takes up a chunk of their spare time, of which they have far less at fourteen than when they first started learning at nine or ten, and they need to feel that they have choice, I think.

My bottom line is that I believe music should be a joyful thing, not a chore to be endured or yet another badge to have atitched onto your 'well-rounded education uniform'. It's quite easy to get sucked into a rather draconian approach, particularly if you have musically-talented children, but I am not at all convinced that it does more good than harm.

[Otta]

Most kids hate practicing in the evenings, but they can get a lot out of it socially.

Last year my old school music teacher passed away, and former students ranging from people that have gone on to professional careers to those that sang in the school choir all were saying that their musical life in school gave them so much.

We may have just been especially lucky though I guess.

[lightweight]

I found music most enjoyable once I was playing at a level sufficient to join the school orchestra. Prior to that I found it a bit dull and used to bicker lots with my parents about practising. Once I got the music bug around age 11, I couldn't stop practising. I think they rather wished they hadn't encouraged it so much as they never had any peace and quiet!

[nunheadmum]

Thanks everyone for the input. Rather glad there wasn't an outpouring of folk telling how being made to practice has scarred them for life!

Our scenario is that my kids are 9 and (almost) 7. Both I'm told are musically quite able. I started my eldest on piano in Year 1 as she was showing an interest and could pick out a tune on her toy ones - and a neighbour started giving lessons, which made it easy. She then wanted to play violin but I persuaded her to try recorder which I thought was more flexible. But a year on she still wanted to play violin so I let her swap but on the condition that she stuck with it for a bit and didn't keep flitting between instruments in the hope that the next one doesn't need practice. We do Suzuki violin so I sit in on her lessons and she clearly enjoys being able to play. Her piano teacher also says that she's a joy to teach and does well.

I really would like to get her playing with other kids as for me, that was what made music fun - I stopped playing at school when the school band was cut and these days I've been playing in a big band for 10+ years, because of the friendships I've made. But there's nothing happening at her school on that front and she's too shy to try any of the summer holiday orchestras as she's scared on not knowing anyone. (Anyone got a 9-ish year old violin player she could befriend before going?) The ED Academy sounds great but they don't do violin unfortunately and it's a big step to change instrument just to be able to do it.

I'm quite open to the idea of her changing instrument if I thought she really didn't like the instrument. But it's the idea of having to put in a bit of work to progress that seems to be the issue. She's currently working towards her grade 1 on piano in the hope that she can get a bit of a sense of achievement out of passing the exam and therefore get a bit of impetus to try and practice/improve further. I can see that practice on a solo instrument can seem a bit futile unless there's some outcome - be that an exam, playing in a group, being seen to be good and therefore 'cool' or whatever....few kids of 9 will have the love of music needed to practice for the sake if it, I suspect.

I think she'll thank me in the long run. I suspect there's no easy answer. My gut feeling is to try and keep her doing it for another year or so and try to get her to try an orchestra or get something going at the school. Or try and find some way to get her to play beyond the bounds of formal lessons and practice - she enjoys for example playing around on the ukelele, so if she could do something less formal on the violin, that may help.

We've done the rounds of kids music concerts but they don't really inspire the kids. I think they'd be more interested in other genres. Does anyone know of any child-accessible folk at the weekends/holidays? We often take then to the Jazz at the Ivyhouse on a Sunday which is great and goes down well.

Thankfully my youngest enjoys trying to show how she's much better than her sister so generally she doesn't make quite such a fuss - yet! But she does have the benefit of a friend who also plays violin, which helps.

I think they both get enough out of it to make it worth persevering for a bit longer. If I can only find some group option before too long I might manage to stop it feeling like such a chore.

[Medusa]

Dulwich Youth Orchestra has a junior string section. Their courses are mornings-only, so not too tiring for younger children, and there are always lots of children of that age in it. She might like it a lot. Take a look at their website, maybe?

http://www.dyodulwich.com

Edited to add: in the past I have sent both my flute-playing sons to DYO and they are very shy, but found it to be welcoming, friendly and not overly pressured.

[mybaby178]

You may want to look up Chamber Players, they run a week long orchestra course in the summer holidays.

[BeccaL]

Also have a friend whose 10yo daughter went to DYO on her own, having been very apprehensive, and absolutely loved it, going back the next holiday. She plays violin too - PM me if you'd like to contact her...

[mybaby178]

I think DYO you have to already be at Grade 2 standard to attend their summer courses

[LondonMix]

Glad I did it and glad I was made to up to a point. I eventually stopped but only after I?d been at it for a while. I think it?s a tough one. It?s important life lesson I think for children to learn the work involved with acquiring a skill?slow (and dull practice) can lead to progress and reward. However, once they?ve been doing it for a few years, I think most of that life lesson is learned and unless they are a music prodigy or have genuine passion of their own then its fine to let them do something else. Learning the logic of music when young is supposed to be good for broader cognitive development and I think if you have learned music you have a greater appreciation for it (maybe).

My brother in law was a very talented footballer and he quit his club because he didn?t like some of the boys. He regrets it terribly that his father didn?t force him to continue. As a teenager you have so little foresight or long term thinking. Only if I was dealing with a really talented child would I consider insisting they continue at music beyond a certain age.

Good luck making your decision.

[nunheadmum]

Thanks for the info on the summer courses. I'll need to contact them to see how Suzuki levels work v grade levels. Becca L - I'll give you a PM if the DYO looks like an option.

[katgod]

Not totally on point and appreciate your children do 'normal' music too, but I did Suzuki violin as a child and feel short changed! I wasn't very good, persevered for maybe 2.5 years while at primary school, hated it, gave up after a lot of money was spent on lessons and the hire of the violin- and still cannot read a note of music! Maybe this is sacrilegious in musical circles ( I am definitely not in them) but when I see what my children do in their piano lessons and the decoding and brain skills utilised to read the music I feel cross that I did not get that. So will get mine to carry on because I think the discipline and other skills are important even if not that talented. And boo to Suzuki (slightly tongue in cheek, and fully accepting that my lack of talent just as much the problem as Suzuki method)

[nunheadmum]

Katgod - sacrilegious or what!!! But totally understand where you're coming from - I'm dubious myself on it but it's the approach used at school and I can see good and bad in it. I try to implement it with a pinch of salt! I'm swithering on whether a change of teacher / approach would help as they do seem more willing with their piano which is normal teaching and the teacher is more laid back. But it could be the instrument more than the approach. And equally I think there is something good about learning the discipline and the ear training in Suzuki.

Argh - can someone fast forward me 5/10 years in different scenarios so I can see which one is right???

[Coach Beth]

hmmm... I have to say that I did Suzuki method as well as a child... didn't get on with it either... but I think I might have been abit on the 'old' side when I started with it... I was eight and in the classes there were all these virtuso 5 year olds!! I resented as well the strict structure - at the music camp I went to in Canada all the other kids on the different instrumental music programmes got to do swimming as well as music and have longer breaks but the Suzuki kids didn't get any of that ... it was work work work and more work. AND I personally think violin is a really tricky instrument to start on, it sound horrid for ages, you don't have frets to guide you blah... having said that, a friend of mine 12 year old son in NYC totally took to violin at a young age and now has all sorts of opportunities and is studying jazz violin as well as orchestra violin. Really I preferred flute ... as I mentioned above I took that up when 11.

The other point I wanted to make is that even if they drop it when they are teenagers or college age, they can always take it up again if they have had a good foundation as a child. That's what happened to me after not playing for about 12 years!

[Otta]

Have you spoken to her teacher to see if they know of any other kids she could get together with? Maybe a bit less daunting than an organised summer scheme.

[JDR]

I did piano from 9/10. Hated it for years, rubbish at practicing and stayed because my mum made me. Fast forward (via very slow progression) to 15 years of age started to love it. Stopped and recently restarted playing. Good grounding as a child gives me a great start. Now just need to find time to practice

[Amanda Guitar]

I was forced to play piano and violin as a child and hated it, mostly because I didn't like my teachers and wasn't interested in classical, and gave up as soon as I could. Had a midlife crisis when I was 40 and had just had my second baby and started playing the acoustic guitar. By the time my kids were old enough to be interested I was regularly playing in folk music classes where you learn traditional dance tunes by ear and then all have fun playing in unison and the kids were used to hearing me practice. My son started off with the ukulele when he was 4 and then shifted to the guitar - getting hold of my electric guitar as soon as he was able - and although he claims to not be interested in folk music he can hum along to most of my tunes. My daughter plays the violin with a teacher who does a mix of classical and folk tunes and I'm hoping to one day talk her into coming to the free beginners tunes session which the south london tunes collective run the last Monday every month at the Old Nun's head. My son's more self motivated about practising than my daughter unless I play with her but we've always had a "do at least 5 min every morning before school" and this seems to work as there's too many distractions after school. This is a long and rambling way of suggesting you start playing something yourself and play with others - it changed my life - and they'll learn from your enjoyment and practise habits and then you can always play together :-) If anyone out there is interested in the tunes session in Nunhead, details are on the Goose is Out website... all acoustic musicians are very welcome!

[nunheadmum]

Amanda - I think violin is about the only instrument I don't play, having experimented on most at some time or another. All at a very amateur level but I recently started piano lessons again with a vague hope that my practicing would encourage the kids. I think you're right though about the style of music. My eldest does really respond when she gets to play more folk pieces. Do you know of any live folk sessions that are accessible to kids? Even just to listen to. Sadly most of those I've seen are all evening gigs and in pubs at that. An afternoon session like the Sunday big band stuff at the Ivyhouse would be ideal but I don't think anyone does anything like that with folk music around here.