East Dulwich Included in Smooth Radio Love London Awards '09

[Louisa]

Sorry Sean but that entire last post is why there is such polarised views in this country over class issues.

You have just blatantly berated anyone who buys from Greggs et al and suggested that buying from any such baker would make you stupid because you cannot tell the difference between a sausage roll made there and one made at EDD. How do you know EDD is better than Greggs, got any hardened evidence? No, didnt think so. I highly doubt you know what goes into a EDD sausage roll either do you? Obviously your superior tastebuds can differentiate between the two though. Being able to afford both gives you that privelige. The poor single mother of four in Peckham doesnt have that luxury to buy both does she? So she has to read this thread and feel like shit because a bunch of ex-Claphamites come on here smugly boasting about the superiority of a shop aimed at middle class people over that of a cheap and cheerful chain bakery.

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Indeed - but you were more reasonable and less emotional than I

[snorky]

Im sure that some of the prodeuce in the EDD is "healthy" but the vast majority isnt - in terms of nutrition , its up there with Chick-King (a royal delight )or its garish high street bretheren - 'cept that one is fetishised by the chattering clases, the other is a cheap staple for the masses.

The olive oil line is a fallacy - its great cold or gently warmed & undoubtably has benefits, but when you start using it for cooking with it, taste apart, any benefit is lost - made with Olive oil...may taste better ( and thats hardly objective) , but will be neck and neck with a ginsters when it comes to artery furring

[SeanMacGabhann]

Louisa - it's nothing to do with class. if you can't tell the difference then, you are just wrong. I wouldn't say stupid

You can't drag a single mother of 4 in Peckham into EVERY argument. At a given point in history that would be an excuse to not have indoor toilets!!! "Well I COULD AFFORD to get a toilet but how will that make all the peolpe with outdoor loos feel??"

I haven't berated anyone who buys stuff from greggs - in fact I went out of my way to say fair play if it's you favourite! WhaT I said was if you can't tell the difference then there is something wrong. Not the first time you take my words, reorder them change them and then put them back in my mouth (err.. so to speak)

[Marmora Man]

Louisa - I'm impressed that you can make the question of taste and quality a "class issue". It must take an extreme and illogical mindset to consider that praising the objective (or even the subjective) quality of a product (any product) is a class issue.

Didn't Two Jags / Two Pies Prescott say "we're all middle class now"??

[SeanMacGabhann]

Another point to clarify Louisa - I'm no ex Claphamite. My previous addresses were East Ham, rural Devon, Swindon, rural Ireland. Working class to a fault all of them

[beef]

What's going on here? We should be happy local establishments are being recognized london wide for their quality and yet you're all here bickering about f'#kin' sausage rolls and class warfare! Administrator, has the EDF finally disappeared up it's own collective backside?

[daizie]

the snobbery in east dulwich brings me close to tears, Louisa have you ever sat in the bishop during the day, weekdays and weekends?, it is a truly eye opening experience, afraid it brings out the worst in me, may go back and let off a stink bomb

[Marmora Man]

And my previous addresses were N London, Essex, The Atlantic / Artic and Mediterranean oceans & seas, Devon, Cornwall, the Midlands and S London. Not necessarily working class all - but certainly working at all of them. I learnt to distinguish good food in my mother's kitchen and later my own as a bachelor - certainly not by reading the Guardian or eating at Michelin starred restaurants.

[Louisa]

I am just wrong because I cant tell the difference? How does that figure? What tastes good for one person may taste like crap for another, going with your argument, anyone and everyone who eats both a Greggs sausage roll and a EDD one should immediately say that the EDD one is better just because it is and thats that! I dont think so sorry. It isnt just about the price, or what goes into the ingredients. I have used crap ingredients to make good quality homemade pies amongst other things and they turn out great for me, but maybe if I had gone into the EDD to buy my bits and bobs one of those pies would have just naturally come out the oven better quality than any previous attempt. What a ludicrous statement!

I have bought sausage rolls at Ayres and I used to buy them at Kennedys, it isnt about local versus chain, it is a class related thing, it is just plain and simple snobbery on behalf of a huge number of ED residents.

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

beef

apologies - I got sucked into a pathetic argument because a few people decided to go off on a bizaare class-rant thing. I thought that by sticking to a few simple facts i could win someone around and get back to the topic

I was misguided in my beliefs

Again

[Marmora Man]

daizie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the snobbery in east dulwich brings me close to

> tears, Louisa have you ever sat in the bishop

> during the day, weekdays and weekends?, it is a

> truly eye opening experience, afraid it brings out

> the worst in me, may go back and let off a stink

> bomb

What's the problem at The Bishop? There are better pubs and worse - but it's better, to my mind, than OK. I've sat there of a lunchtime reading a newspaper, eating macaroni cheese with bacon (excellent) and drinking Guiness. Alongside me have been mothers & children, other middle (?) aged men, HGV drivers, once a drug dealer and his minder, a couple of young women discussing sharing a flat. A cross section of human life - I prefer it at lunchtime when it's not so crowded and sometimes treat teenage son to their Eggs Benedict of a Sunday.

Agree with Beef - this was a thread about praising local businesses. Let's get back to that.

[Jeremy]

You can always rely on certain people to hijack a thread and turn it into some sort of fictional class struggle...

[Moos]

What I don't get is how Louisa knows why everyone else buys what they buy.

Such-and-such a person buys from Greggs - and she knows why. It's because they're poor and they are buying the best they can afford. Such-and-such a person buys from the EDD - and she knows why again. It's because they're a monstrous snob and want everyone to know (via their sausage rolls) how marvellous they are.

Buy what you buy, for your own reasons. But don't bloody tell me what I think. You don't know me.

[Louisa]

Jeremy you know full well that there is a distinct line between many of the ex-Claphamite types and the old school people who have always lived here. There isnt any point trying to hide it away in a box somewhere, it is real, deal with it.

Louisa.

[snorky]

hahaha

my work here is done for another day

[Louisa]

Moos, no offence but that was possibly the most amusing and pathetic response I have ever had on here. I am giggling as I type hehe. No in all seriousness, I do not know what each individual buys, but it is clear from the mix of shops along LL that certain folk go in some places because they like to waste/spend lots of money and wouldnt be seen dead in Iceland et al, and many others wouldnt be able to afford to shop in anywhere other than say Iceland et al. If you cannot see these differences you are obviously very misguided!

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy you know full well that there is a distinct

> line between many of the ex-Claphamite types and

> the old school people who have always lived here.

> There isnt any point trying to hide it away in a

> box somewhere, it is real, deal with it.

I would agree that there is a distinction between the shopping habits of *some* of the old guard and some of the newer residents (not all... because you really can't generalise like that). That doesn't make anyone a snob though, and it doesn't mean that just because you don't like a shop, nobody else should go there!

East Dulwich still has Iceland and Sainsburys. We have Lidl and Aldi stores a short drive away. There's plenty of choice for everyone.

[Louisa]

I agree Jeremy, but equally I do not think I need people to tell me that because I may buy sausage rolls from Greggs I have shot tastebuds, and EDD ones (a place where mostly ex-Claphamites shop) are far superior, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE, no other reason being given.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

I agree Louisa, we're all entitled to our own opinion regarding taste, quality, and value for money!

[Moos]

No offence taken. I did not say that everyone shopping in LL has the same budget, it's pretty obvious as you say from the mix of shops and the history of the area, that lots of different people come here. But you haven't provided any reason other than Just Because I Say So that - for example - the customers of the EDD are buying there for status or because they like to waste money or indeed that they used to live in Clapham. Calling me pathetic won't make you right, but providing some evidence might.

[Louisa]

Moos maybe you should ask others for evidence regarding the authenticity of the argument 'sausage rolls are better are x than y just because I say so' first!

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I will start a relevant thread later. But the original topic of this thread doesnt deserve to be lounged so i suggest we let the thread in back on topic

[hislordship]

the snobbery in east dulwich brings me close to

> tears, Louisa have you ever sat in the bishop

> during the day, weekdays and weekends?, it is a

> truly eye opening experience, afraid it brings out

> the worst in me, may go back and let off a stink

> bomb

Lol. Reminds me of an afternoon in one of our local eateries last year when I heard a women say 'Come on Porsche, shall we depart', followed by 'Oh, cheerio darling' to the waiter. I had to work heard not to get up and punch both mother and daughter in their over made up faces. I got a nosebleed from the mums strong and expensive perfume.

[Marmora Man]

'Come on Porsche,

Surely "Come on Portia" a fine name with a Shakespearean pedigree, it's been around a long time and should meet Louisa's steely tests for correctness.