Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Smiler Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Walk past the school lots and it has lovely

> grounds, but very rarely are there any kids

> (either from the school or visiting) actually

> visible - is a bit eerie.


Smiler,

I imagine you, like most of us, have a day job, in which case you are unlikely to be passing Alleyn's during school hours.... Perhaps you could write to them to ask them to make more frequent use of the fields; perhaps the odd firework display....

As a Southwark council taxpayer I LOVE Alleyns and all the other private schools!




All fee-paying parents give indirectly to the community and council taxpayers.




Every child who is at Alleyns etc is one less child at a STATE School.

So saving all of us the cost of that child?s school place!



Fantastic!



The parents PAY TAXES ?like the rest of us tax payers? to send local children to state schools ????. Then pay AGAIN to send their own kids to private school!



If it were a fair system then they would get a TAX rebate for sending their children to private school.

Yes thebeard fair enough but your comment doesn't address the latest issue which is what we want to discuss. Not rehashing the argument of state versus private which can run and run.


Interestingly there are traffic monitoring sensor wires that have just been put into Hillsboro Rd (along with a lot of East Dulwich). These wires went in the day before Alleyn's closed for the holidays and therefore will not show a true representation of the traffic, in fact there is hardly any traffic when the school is closed.

Road traffic around schools is down to poor Southwark Planning.




Southwark should require schools to have sufficient off road facilities for parents to drop children on the school premises.




Alleyns grounds could easily be set out to have a drive through for set down, but they will do everything they can to avoid that and load up the local roads rather than rearrange their grounds.





If you live next to a school you have to accept the problems of parking traffic etc.





So the soultion lies with Southwark forcing Alleyns to do the right thing, residents should lobby for that.

  • 1 year later...

Townleygreen:


There is no published historical narrative of charities and their work in East Dulwich.


The starting point is Terry's Charity which was in existence before 1818. William Terry of Lordship Lane gave to his educational charity an annuity of ?60 in perpetuity and the freehold of four small cottages in Lordship Lane known as Terry Place.


After that there is a gaping void to be filled.


On this thread several people have posted that they know about Alleyn's School's charitable work in the community. I am hoping they may provide some evidence.


The emphasis here (the EDF) on before the second world war is because the oral history interviews may pick up some post-1939 information.


lillyanginger:


The donor records in the school's archive have a part to play in the narrative. However, I'm looking for a balanced view that includes recipient documents and memories.


The school is the wealthiest charity in East Dulwich and over a hundred years it should have left a tangible footprint of its charitable work in the community.


John K

John, I am not sure what you mean by a wealthy charity exactly, but in the case of Alleyn's until the funds of the Estates Governors were more fairly distributed in the 90s it got a tiny amount of money from the Dulwich Foundation compared to Dulwich College and JAGs. In the inter-war period it would not have been well off at all.


Of course, another view is that work in the community by a school has nothing to do with how "wealthy" a school is, but how focussed the school and the pupils are on doing their bit for the community. I believe that in the 30s Alleyn's got a high proportion of its pupils from ED, which was quite a working class/lower middle class area then.

Townleygreen:


I used the relative "wealthiest" as a comparison with the very small number of East Dulwich charities I know about. This is personal knowledge based on the examination of files going back to 1948.


I do not have any evidence yet, but I would be surprised if it was not also the wealthiest for the period 1918-1939.


Information about scholarships and bursaries for East Dulwich boys would be very useful. I know from casual conversations at the time that from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s the terminology used was imprecise. A scholarship boy waa a scholarship boy, and that was that. No distinction was drawn between a full or partial bursary provided and funded by the school and a school place purchased by the London County Council.


I am using a nominal cut-off date of 31 March 1965 for local history. I do not intend to enter any debates about the 21st century charitable status of the school.


John K

John K


Allen's only exists because of the forcible rescheming of Dulwich College by the newly formed Charity Commission in the late 19th century. It was set up as a grant maintained school and would have had very little money of its own. I think you are confusing Alleyn's with the Edward Alleyn Foundation of God's Gift at Dulwich which really is the largest local charity and the owner of a great part of the land in and around Dulwich.


The person you need to speak to is Bryan Green, he is the leading local historian in Dulwich and wrote a paper on the history of the Edward Alleyn estate. His family still own the stationers in Dulwich Village and he should be contactable via the business.

If you want to close down the private schools bring back state grammars. This time link each to a comprehensive: JAGS to Charter, Kingsdale to D.C., for example, and make sure the movement up as well as down stays open and transparent.


At the same time equate plumbing with neurosurgery demanding the highest training good benefits and social recognition


Not everyone needs or wants to go to "university" want they want and society needs is they do their job at the highest modern level


Does Britain have the worst trained builders in the developed world?


JAGS at least, Alleyn's as well? started life as a grammar. No one really wants to pay for education after they've paid their taxes. What they want is quiet in the classroom and a guarantee that their child gets exposed to material at the top end of their ability to learn. Private schools also "set" btw and kids resit exams they flubbed

Townleygreen:


I don't mind if you want to treat JAGS as being in East Dulwich and demote Alleyn's to second wealthiest.


Although JAGS is in the SE22 post code area it is a bit of a stretch to say it's in East Dulwich.


It would be great if you have some fresh evidence that JAGS' plot of land was ever in East Dulwich


I imagine you can verify the relative wealth of of JAGS and Alleyn's from the Foundation's returns to the Charities Commission.


Amelie:


I have an original copy of the 1857 "An Act for Confirming a Scheme of the Charity Commissioners...[etc, etc]". The Victorians were verbose - they could have called it "The Dulwich College Act". The corruption and events leading up to the 1857 Act are interesting, but not part of East Dulwich history.


However, Camberwell Vestry seem to have done some "interesting things" in the first half of the 19th century, but that's another thread for another time.


Everyone:


I'm afraid my original question has become somewhat obscured:


I am looking for evidence of Alleyn's School's contribution to the local community during the 20th century with particular emphasis on the period before the second world war.


John K

Hiya all


As a reactionary left wing Spart, I just want to say that Alleyns, Jaggers etc etc were all originaly set up to provide education for those that could not afford eduaction, and were granted charitable status later on to assist them. This status gives them considerable tax clout, they own large amounts of land in our very over priced locality, bus in kids from large areas of london which have perfectly reasonable schools, recieve (and have recieved) substantial monies from wills etc. Why should these rich, and over resourced, private institutions be subsidised by any funds, in any form, the tax payer?


There, I just had to get that of my chest!


Rgutsell; a perfectly happy and well educated product of a comprehensive school!

rgutsell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hiya all

>

> As a reactionary left wing Spart, I just want to

> say that Alleyns, Jaggers etc etc were all

> originaly set up to provide education for those

> that could not afford eduaction, and were granted

> charitable status later on to assist them. This

> status gives them considerable tax clout, they own

> large amounts of land in our very over priced

> locality, bus in kids from large areas of london

> which have perfectly reasonable schools, recieve

> (and have recieved) substantial monies from wills

> etc. Why should these rich, and over resourced,

> private institutions be subsidised by any funds,

> in any form, the tax payer?

>

> There, I just had to get that of my chest!

>

> Rgutsell; a perfectly happy and well educated

> product of a comprehensive school!



I'm not in favour of either system.


TAX?..


Anyone who sends their kids to private school is doing the tax payer a big favour as they still pay tax ?usually a lot? ?which helps pays for state schools etc? and they pay the school fees too so paying twice.


Looking at it that way we?d all be better off if more people sent their kids to private schools.


The offset in tax terms is probably still very biased against the wealthy and private schools.



As for end results well in my experience of working in numerous areas of finance and construction I don?t know anyone who?s a product of private school who?s a well rounded successful individual but have met plenty of state schooled individuals who are successful and also happy.

  • 2 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Does anyone know when the next SNT meeting is? I am fed up with my son being mugged on East Dulwich Grove! 
    • The issue must be everywhere at the moment. I was visiting a friend last week in Bermondsey, think we were walking  down Linton Rd & we dodged 7 dog poos. It was disgusting. 
    • Thanks for your message — I actually took the time to look into what CityHive does before posting my original comment, and I’d encourage anyone with questions to do the same. Yes, the Companies House filings are overdue — but from what I’ve gathered, this seems likely to be an accountant or admin issue, not some sign of ill intent. A lot of small, community-based organisations face challenges keeping up with formalities, especially when they’re focused on immediate needs like food distribution. Let’s not forget CityHive is a not-for-profit, volunteer-powered CIC — not a corporate machine. As for the directors, people stepping down or being replaced is often about capacity or commitment — which is completely normal in the voluntary and community sector. New directors are sometimes appointed when others can no longer give the time. It doesn’t automatically mean bad governance — it just means people’s circumstances change. CityHive’s actual work speaks volumes. They buy most of the food they distribute — fresh produce, essential groceries, and shelf-stable items — and then deliver it to food banks, soup kitchens, and community projects across London. The food doesn’t stay with CityHive — it goes out to local food hubs, and from there, directly to people who need it most. And while yes, there may be a few paid staff handling logistics or admin, there’s a huge volunteer effort behind the scenes that often goes unseen. Regular people giving their time to drive vans, sort donations, load pallets, pack food parcels — that’s what keeps things running. And when people don’t volunteer? Those same tasks still need to be done — which means they have to be paid for. Otherwise, the whole thing grinds to a halt. As the need grows, organisations like CityHive will inevitably need more support — both in people and funding. But the bigger issue here isn’t one small CIC trying to make ends meet. The real issue is the society we live in — and a government that isn’t playing its part in eradicating poverty. If it were, organisations like CityHive, The Felix Project, City Harvest, FareShare, and the Trussell Trust wouldn’t need to exist, let alone be thriving. They thrive because the need is growing. That’s not a reflection on them — it’s a reflection on a broken system that allows people to go hungry in one of the richest cities in the world. If you're in doubt about what they’re doing, go check their Instagram: @cityhivemedia. You’ll see the real organisations and people receiving food, sharing thanks, and showing how far the impact reaches. Even Southwark Foodbank has received food from CityHive — that alone should speak volumes. So again — how does any of this harm you personally? Why spend time trying to discredit a group trying to support those who are falling through the cracks? We need more people lifting others up — not adding weight to those already carrying the load.
    • Well, this is very disappointing. Malabar Feast  has changed its menu again. The delicious fish curry with sea bass no longer exists. There is now a fish dish with raw mango, which doesn't appeal. I had dal and spinach instead, which was bland (which I suppose I could/should have predicted). One of my visitors had a "vegetable Biriani" which contained hardly any vegetables. Along with it came two extremely tiny pieces of poppadom in a large paper bag.   This was embarrassing, as I had been singing Malabar's praises and recommending we ordered from there. The other mains and the parathas were OK, but I doubt we will be ordering from there again. My granddaughters wisely opted for Yard Sale pizzas, which were fine. Has anybody else had a similar recent poor (or indeed good!)  experience at Malabar Feast?
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...