Is Alleyn's School a cuckoo?

[AllforNun]

community nest ! oh please !!!! community to who yourselves ?

[Green Goose]

sillywoman Wrote:

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> You're making a lot of inaccurate assumptions

> about me GG.

Pray tell what were these inaccurate assumptons? I asked a question about you helping out with car boot fairs.

[snorky]

Green Goose Wrote:

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> sillywoman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > As a family of 6

> > members of that local community we, like Asset,

> > have yet to see any benefit fro their existence.

>

> >

> I suppose that logic might apply to you and the

> Royal National Lifeboat Institution. RNLI is a

> charity and I would guess you have not yet seen

> any benefit from its existence.

> >

> > BTW I was told that the brilliant boot sales

> were

> > simply a means to raise money for the

> > redevelopment of the playing fields and cricket

> > pavilion.

>

> Every credit then to Alleyns for being

> self-reliant and organising car boot sales to

> raise funds develop facilities.

>

> Would you rather they went running to the state

> for funds?

>

> There's nothing to stop state schools from doing

> something similar. Is that something you might

> consider organising or helping out with?

By maintaining their tax dodging charitable status ( by the skin of their teeth ) they are effectively using state funds by proxy. If the school had morals & an ethos of contribution to society, they would "independent" as opposed to charidee-lite

Its good to know that in a roundabout way, we help fund and support this bastion of privelige.

The chattering clases express outrage at offshore tax scams used in the City, yet are quite happy to send their kids to an instuitution that takes advantage of loopholes to evade paying their way

[mothergoose]

Has anyone noticed the Heber children heading off to swimming lessons at Alleyn's this week? Bet they are pleased to be able to use the facilities now that Alleyn's has broken up.

[tomdhu]

snorky Wrote:

> Its good to know that in a roundabout way, we help

> fund and support this bastion of privelige.

Snorky, it's so roundabout, it's really screwed and twisted.

The reality is that if Alleyns and the like didn't exist, then the children there now would have to be schooled at the state's expense.

In effect therefore, the parents who pay fees to Alleyns are actually saving the state money ie they are currently paying an additional subsidy to the state system.

There is therefore a case to be made for these parents to receive tax refund that is equivalent to the cost per head of education incurred by the state.

If we follow your logic then should we get all the taxis off the road and go by state operated/funded transport instead?

[snorky]

Straw man

Your taxes & rates are not a personal savings account to dip into at a later date, hence you analogy is flawed.

I have never called out the fire brigade - should I take this off my contribution to the Local authority ?

Now be off with you

[sillywoman]

Green Goose Wrote:

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>

> Pray tell what were these inaccurate assumptons?

Don't be a silly goose. My personal involvement (or not)in community events isn't at all relevant to this thread. If you're really that interested in my private life then I think you're a bit odd and scary.

[tomdhu]

snorky Wrote:

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> Now be off with you

This seems to be your default expression when you can't logically refute an opposing argument ;-).

If you can't accept the logic of refunding state school costs per head then I'll give you an example where the state actually pays out in a similar manner. It's in the area of pensions - in particular SERPS and S2P.

Have a look at http://www.worksmart.org.uk/money/what_does_opting_out_or_contracting_out

To summarise, if you opt out of S2P, your private pension fund will then receive, from the government, part of your National Insurance contributions. Doesn't that really stick in your craw?

So the precedent has been established.

Let these parents have their refunds, now!

In fact, why not go one step further and separate the state from direct involvement in education all together? They've made a mess of it anyway in the last few years. Then give out an individual education allowance for each child and let the parents decide where they buy their child's education?

If they wanted, they could top it up by as much as they want. That way the schools would rise and fall by the quality of the education they provided. Parents would avoid the crap schools. Crap schools would have to improve or close. Good ones would expand and flourish. It would let people achieve their aspirations.

It would get rid of the "lowest common denominator" culture that has become increasingly prevalent.

[snorky]

do you seriously beleive that the market will produce the best educationla results overall ?

Like Communisn - Capitalism has never existed in its purest/ libertarian favoured form - what we have out there is hardly a shining example of the genre

there are plenty of pension pot holders who have been had their futures curtailed by adoption of market rules and duoped into believing this is the way forward.

If you want to spend your cash on skool, then get on with it, but this isnt society a la carte - there is a social responsibility attached to living here.

[tomdhu]

snorky Wrote:

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> If you want to spend your cash on skool, then get

> on with it

Now you've got it, Snorky. Freedom of choice.

People currently have that choice with pensions and education - amongst other diverse things like housing, taxis, holidays etc, etc. But with schools, the parents of kids at Alleyns are paying twice for the education when they opt out of the state system. They pay first to Alleyns and a second time to the state. They don't pay twice however with pensions as the state refunds the NI contributions for those opting out.

That aside, by giving people choice, parents will strive to provide their kids with the best education they can afford. Like pensions, there are risks and some people might make the wrong choice, but, having had the option of choosing, they can't complain if it goes wrong.

For those who prefer to dispense with the freedom to choose ie let the state do everything for them, they might feel more comfortable in a country like N. Korea where the state will make every decision on your behalf. Let them be off to Pyongyang, no one is stopping them.

[EDOldie]

Trouble is the overwhelming majority have no choice at all.

[Moos]

tomdhu Wrote:

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> But with

> schools, the parents of kids at Alleyns are

> paying twice for the education when they opt out

> of the state system. They pay first to Alleyns and

> a second time to the state.

Tomdhu, they are also paying to be part of a society when free education is available for everyone, which is beneficial to everyone.

[snorky]

tomdhu Wrote:

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> snorky Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you want to spend your cash on skool, then

> get

> > on with it

>

> Now you've got it, Snorky. Freedom of choice.

>

> People currently have that choice with pensions

> and education - amongst other diverse things like

> housing, taxis, holidays etc, etc. But with

> schools, the parents of kids at Alleyns are

> paying twice for the education when they opt out

> of the state system. They pay first to Alleyns and

> a second time to the state. They don't pay twice

> however with pensions as the state refunds the NI

> contributions for those opting out.

>

> That aside, by giving people choice, parents will

> strive to provide their kids with the best

> education they can afford. Like pensions, there

> are risks and some people might make the wrong

> choice, but, having had the option of choosing,

> they can't complain if it goes wrong.

>

> For those who prefer to dispense with the freedom

> to choose ie let the state do everything for them,

> they might feel more comfortable in a country like

> N. Korea where the state will make every decision

> on your behalf. Let them be off to Pyongyang, no

> one is stopping them.

You were doing so well until you came out with the North korea line. I could counter it to request that all those who favour pure capitalism pootle off to Somalia , where you can see how a real life pretty much unregulated market works but that would be beneath me so I wont.

[Brendan]

Considering the epic debates about the social benefits of the libertarian right and socialist left between folks like Mamora Man and Huguenot this is a bit like a scrap in a sandpit innit.

Admittedly Snorky is amusing though.

[Zebedee Tring]

When reading the views of those on this thread who apparently wish to opt out of paying their taxes for state education and other services that they don't use, I am reminded of the words of one of my least favourite politicians of the last 40 years, one Margaret Thatcher, who notoriously said 'There is no such thing as society'.

[mlteenie]

Has anyone heard a rumour that Alleyn's is quietly lobbying the council to turn Hillsboro Rd into a one-way street? Presumably for their convenience rather than the residents'.

This would be inconvenient for those who live there, and highly convenient for the school whose often shambolic driving population is only around for half an hour, twice a day, half a year, (Although the students and teachers clog the street up with their parked cars all day as has been mentioned).

Whilst it may be a good idea in principle, to ease the congestion that occurs at pick-up and drop-off time, a little consultation with the residents would be fair.

Perhaps the letter's in the post eh!

[SteveT]

Brendan wrote:- Considering the epic debates about the social benefits of the libertarian right and socialist left between folks like Mamora Man and Huguenot this is a bit like a scrap in a sandpit innit.

tomdhu and Snorky, two bald men fighting over a comb:))

[dv1]

There is something like 57 local groups that use Alleyns facilties every week which equates with the school being used 75 hours a week, 52 weeks a year by other people.

[stereforth]

This is a very late follow-up to James (10th March). When someone in the editorial dept. of the Sun came up with "Gotcha", it was regarded by some as tasteless in view of the possible high number of deaths. It was then referred upwards to Murdoch himself, who said "Run it". Can't say I have any sympathy for MacKenzie, but the blame should be laid upon the true culprit.

[grabot]

The council should tell them to sling their hook and insist that they reduce their catchment area (or indeed create a catchment area) if traffic congestion is a problem.

[abcd]

How many people would send their children to Kingsdale if they had the money to afford to send them to Alleyn's purely on a matter of principle? It's all well and good saying that there shouldn't be a private and state sector in respect to education as in increases the class gap but until state education improves parents will try to do the best for their children i.e. will pay huge amounts of money for a private education.

As to whether Alleyn's contribute to the community, they offer numerous scolorships and bursaries. The national youth theatre uses the new Edward Alleyn building, sports clubs have access to all of the sports facilities. The put on free or certainly reduced cost music events either by the pupils or by professional musicians. Every Thursday there are students from year 10 upwards who do community service by spending time with and helping the elderly, and by helping at a nearby school for the disabled. As previously said money is raised for many charities, many of them selected on the fact that they help in the local community.

So there is some congestion twice a day (which is likely to happen at most schools), so there may have been fireworks which ran on a bit late one night. All schools will have their faults but i think Alleyn's contributes a lot more to the community than it damages it.

[Asset]

um, this argument has been running and running with no posts since April.

Private versus state yadayadayada.

Mlteenie has come on with a discussion regarding their possibly underhand behaviour not consulting with the local residents and you are all ignoring that.

I think there is a valid discussion to be had regarding this most recent news.

[sillywoman]

A friend who works at Alleyns gave us a copy of the letter the school sent to their parents (note: not the local residents) regarding the traffic congestion they cause. The letter referred to the schools ongoing request to the council to create a one way system Hillsborough Rd for the benefit of their parents.

As Asset says; yadayada to the rest, but as a large presence in the immediate community they have repeatedly shown their disdain & disregard for anyone with no money to offer them. They just don't give a flying *$@! about local residents and the impact they have on them & have made no bones about it. Because of this they deserve all the bad feeling that they get. You couldn't pay me to my kids there.

[Smiler]

Walk past the school lots and it has lovely grounds, but very rarely are there any kids (either from the school or visiting) actually visible - is a bit eerie.

[louisiana]

mlteenie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Has anyone heard a rumour that Alleyn's is quietly

> lobbying the council to turn Hillsboro Rd into a

> one-way street? Presumably for their convenience

> rather than the residents'.

> This would be inconvenient for those who live

> there, and highly convenient for the school whose

> often shambolic driving population is only around

> for half an hour, twice a day, half a year,

> (Although the students and teachers clog the

> street up with their parked cars all day as has

> been mentioned).

>

> Whilst it may be a good idea in principle, to ease

> the congestion that occurs at pick-up and drop-off

> time, a little consultation with the residents

> would be fair.

>

> Perhaps the letter's in the post eh!

The best thing would be for them to be obliged to submit a comprehensive travel management plan for the school. This would include a full account of traffic generated by the school, and the specific steps that the school would take to reduce its impact on the environment, with quantifiable targets.